Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan 209 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  bohm

  Essan:

  TD did some epic floor-mopping with djeggnog in another thread. Djeggnog claimed that it was catagorically true and that the watchtower was absolutely certain AND teached that ANY child, baby or infant where AT LEAST ONE parent was NOT a witness in good standing would be KILLED AT ARMAGEDDON.

  TD first quoted a watchtower puplication that said we could not know who would be killed and who would be spared.

  Djeggnog said that the publication was wrong.

  TD then called the official public relations office at patterson and read what Djeggnog had written, word by word, and asked if that was their official oppinion on the matter.

  The public relationship guy told TD that it most certainly was not.

  Djeggnogs response?: The public relations guy was bullshitting. Ill let that stand.

  There you have it. Djeggnog is not a witness in the sence of the word. She/he dont give a crap what the witnesses believe, she/he has her/his own theology and wont even change it when it is directly contradicted by the watchtowers puplication or by senior members. She/he is in effect putting herself over jehovahs chanel. Delusions of grandour? you bet.

  Now here is the best part:

  Imagine an infant born by parents in China who has never even heard about Jehovahs Witnesses.

  Its going to die.

  But how?

  According to The Book of Djeggnog 13:4 Jesus will go down on earth, take a sword, and flipping kill the baby with the sword.

  Try to picture that: Jesus killing helpless infants with a sword. Their crime? they just deserve it! Obay my mocking idol of a God or jesus will flipping kill your children with a sword! The will show satan his plan has failed!

  I have tried to ask Djeggnog again and again how, exacty, jesus will use the sword on the baby. Will it be one quick blow to the head, will it be more like a few stabs here and there, or will he go all out and use his master carpenter skills to hack it apart limb-by-limb. So far Djeggnog has been strangely silent on the matter, but im sure The Book of Djeggnog contain the answer.

  In my book, when your mental picture of your God-of-Love is that it will kill infants with a sword because some guys couldnt arse themselves over to their place and hand them a brouchure, there is something wrong with your head.
• 

  Essan

  Wow, I had no idea of these other discussions with DJ regarding Jesus supposed taste for infanticide. Thanks Bohm.

  And I've noticed that same tendency with other supposed WT apologists here too: They don't care what the Watchtower or it's representatives say. They have their own personal version of the "truth", different to the Society, and they defend the Society according what they think, rather than what the Society thinks and what it says. It's truly bizarre. I'm glad others have noticed and exposed this.

  "In my book, when your mental picture of your God-of-Love is that it will kill infants with a sword because some guys couldnt arse themselves over to their place and hand them a brouchure, there is something wrong with your head."

  LOL. Very true. Such a view if very revealing of our psychological state of mind, IMO.
• 

  OUTLAW

  And I've noticed that same tendency with other supposed WT apologists here too:

  They don't care what the Watchtower or it's representatives say....Essan

  Actually they are not much different than the JW`s that come to your door..

  And..

  Lie their ass off when presented with tuff questions about the WBT$..

  Jehovah`s Witness`s have been trained to lie by the WBT$..

  The Lie even has a Special WBT$ Name..

  "Theocratic Warfare Stratagey"..

  It`s the "WBT$ Approved" Lie..

  ............................ ...OUTLAW
• 

  peacedog

  Hmm. Listening to eggnog prattle on, justifying Russell's statement in The Time is at Hand, one wonders why his cult leaders felt it necessary to CHANGE WHAT RUSSELL HAD WRITTEN and RE-ISSUE THE BOOK.....

  If Eggnog is correct in his assertion that Russell made no prediction about 1914 in this instance, if Russell's statement was (and is) correct, why oh why did the WT$ remove Russell's statement and re-issue the book?

  The time for the Gentile nations' trampling God's Messianic Kingdom is over and now God's Messianic Kingdom is doing the trampling of these Gentiles nations whose rulership God had permitted until "the farthest limit," that is to say, at the full limit of the appointed times" to "gather all things together again in the Christ, ... the things on the earth."

  At this point, I honestly hope you're a liar... The alternative, that you actually believe what you're saying, implies a life that is far too bizzare for me to consider.

  Explain, if you possibly can, how "God's Messianic Kingdom", in all of its invisibleness, is now "trampling...these Gentile nations"

  @peacedog:

  "Every student of Watchtower history knows that Russell predicted the "parousia" for 1874 and the COMPLETE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE KINGDOM for 1914."

  Yes and yes. And you know what? The man called it! The Messianic kingdom of God was established at the end of the Gentile Times.

  "Yes and yes"? "The man called it"?... Did he indeed?

  Did the "parousia" begin in 1874 as Russell "called it" (and went to the grave believing)? Yes or No?

  And since Russell predicted the "parousia" for 1874, what do you suppose he meant by his prediction of "the complete establishment of the kingdom" for 1914? He couldn't have meant the "parousia" (which jws NOW believe occurred in 1914) because he predicted that for 1874. He couldn't have meant the "establishment of the kingdom" and the beginning of Christ's rule (which jws NOW believe occurred in 1914) since he predicted those to occur in 1978:

  April, 1878, marks the date of the establishment of the Kingdom, as shown in the same volume. --WT 8/1/1904 R3405

  Actual Presence of the Lord as Bridegroom and Reaper--October, A.D. 1874. Power and Title as King Assumed three and a half years later--A.D. 1878 --The Time is at Hand, 1902, p.247

  So what did he mean by COMPLETE establishment of the (already established since 1878) kingdom?

  And when did those Gentile Times end? You tell me.

  Wow. I better defer to the "experts":

  [the nations] know not that their days of empire are limited to “seven times” or 2,520 years, which will end in A.D. 1915, giving place to the Kingdom of God in the hands of the Messiah... --WT 2/15/1892 (R:1373)

  Starting from this, the evidently correct starting point, the 2520 years of “Gentile Times” will, without stretching or shrinking, end with September, 1914, A. D.... --WT 5/15/1896 (R:1979)

  August 1, 1914, marked the end of the gentile times. It also marked the legal ending of the old world. There the ouster proceedings began, when he whose right it is took unto himself his power. --WT 1/1/1923 p.3

  ...they ended in the early autumn, or about October 1, of the year 1914 of our twentieth century. --WT 10/15/1958 p.634

  So..... yeah.

  His mission (like his cult masters) is to deceive people.

  No, my mission is to save people for those of Satan's agents that would deceive and mislead them, transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. (2 Corinthians 4:4) I am a minister of righteousness; God's righteousness, but whose minister are you?

  "I am a minister of righteousness"... And I would expect no lesser claim from an agent of Satan who had 'transformed himself into a minister of righteousness'. Would you?
• 

  peacedog

  Did anyone else notice Eggnog's Freudian slip?

  "No, my mission is to save people for those of Satan's agents that would deceive and mislead them"

  Indeed it is, eggnog. Indeed it is.
• 

  The Finger

  Djeggnog,

  Although you emphasized the words in the 1968 WT. Perhaps, could, would, remember that this is six years later, time is running out.

  The statement "Evening of seventh creative day begins,4026 BCE." backed up by "morning of the seventh creative day begins, 526 BCE." page 131 of the Gods Eternal Purpose book.

  "The first half or "evening" period of God's seventh creative "day" was now closing, 3,500 years from creation of Adam and EVE. The morning of this creative "day" was due to begin at 526 BCE."

  No "perhaps" and you made the point how the "truth" is what is currently taught and that is what was current in 1974/5
• 

  Essan

  PD said: "At this point, I honestly hope you're a liar... The alternative, that you actually believe what you're saying, implies a life that is far too bizzare for me to consider."

  Yeah, I'm, struggling to make sense of this too: a gross liar, or an absolute moron? Either way it's desperately sad. I wish I were using hyperbole here and simply trying to be insulting. But, no. It really is that bad, as anyone who has read the entire thread can verify. It's profoundly strange. Who knows, perhps there is something to demon possession after all?
• 

  TD

  The idea of a heavenly establishment of the kingdom is a Rutherford era understanding that did not begin to emerge until 1920 and did not reach its modern form until 1925. In that regard, the article 'Birth of the Nation' in the March 1st issue of The Watch Tower is regularly pointed to as a milestone in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses and the point when this concept was first completely understood.

  JW literature has been open and upfront about the fact that this was not understood until some time after 1914. For example, the publication Light Volume I states on page 232:

  "Truly it is a "great" sign, because of its importance. The kingdom or nation was born with the end of 1914, but this fact was not intelligently discerned by the people of God until some time after 1918."

  The idea that the heavenly kingdom was not already set up and still needed to be 'born' was an alien concept to Russell and the 19th century Bible Students. "Fully set up" as Russell used the term in relation to the kingdom included the complete end of the rule of imperfect men and the commencement of Christ's rule over the Earth.
• 

  djeggnog

  @cantleave wrote to djeggnog:

  Well eggnog - how have we seen that come true since 1914? In context with history - how has the period 1914 until now witnessed a disintegration of the rule of imperfect men?

  @djeggnog wrote to cantleave:

  My goodness! Are you telling me that you are not aware of the fact that based upon the proclamation that has been made by Jehovah's Witnesses since 1914 in announcing God's Messianic Kingdom by Christ Jesus of how many people have dedicated their lives to God and become proclaimers themselves of the good news of the kingdom? Jehovah's Witnesses are those that recognize theocratic rulership over human rulership, so that they give their allegiance to earth's rightly ruler, Christ Jesus, as their king, in full submission to their God, Jehovah.

  @Essan wrote:

  Excuse me DJ, you seem to imply here that JW's have been uniformly proclaiming Christ as becoming King in 1914 since 1914, which is not true, as you well know. At least until 1929, and possibly much longer, the JW's proclaimed Christ's kingship as beginning in 1874. So, they were preaching a lie for the first 50 years as well as acting as False Prophets for considerably longer. They were and are also preaching "another good news", rather than the good news of the Kingdom which Jesus commanded and which the 1st century Christians preached, for which the penalty according to Paul is to be "accursed" - but if you want to crow about this Satanic career of the JW's DJ, then go ahead, but preferably not in this thread, because it's off topic.

  Actually, I believe I am on topic here, for what I am discussing here is by way of expanding upon the topic that you began here in this thread re Russell's "prediction" of 1914 as being when the Gentile Times would come to an end. I'm not willing to play a game of semantics over whether what Russell did was made a calculation of the year 1914 based on his reckoning 2,520 years from the year 607 BC or whether what he did was make a prediction of the year 1914.

  Maybe you have allowed yourself to be stumbled over the fact that Russell was imperfect and may have said a lot of things when he was alive , which things Jehovah's Witnesses today know weren't accurate, but we praise Jehovah for having used that imperfect man in helping the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses to understand that Jesus Christ is now ruling in heaven as king! Many of us have prayed for God's kingdom to come without knowing for what it was we were praying, but it is through men like Russell and other people that Jehovah raised up by means of His spirit to help you to appreciate its meaning that we are now able to help others to appreciate these things, become reconciled to God through Christ and dedicate themselves to God to do His will and get baptized, which is the work that the Lord Jesus Christ has given all of his followers to do.

  And you know what, @Essan? We are going to do it until Jehovah says "Enough!"

  And just as folks received the apostle Paul as if he were "an angel of God, like Christ Jesus" (Galatians 4:14), my hope, @Essan, is that you will receive me as you would that chief angel of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and give some thought to what you're going to do before the end comes.

  @djeggnog
• 

  PSacramento

  This thread is painful to read.

  Dj, I think you need to re-read some of the thinsg you are posting, this for example:

  And just as folks received the apostle Paul as if he were "an angel of God, like Christ Jesus" (Galatians 4:14), my hope, @Essan, is that you will receive me as you would that chief angel of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and give some thought to what you're going to do before the end comes.

  Do you see nothing wrong with what you wrote here?