JW's came to the door (page 2)

Since JWs think they have the truth and no one else does, it's almost impossible to tell them anything directly. They think it's their job to explain "the truth" to ignorant people at the door, so I let them. I simply ask lots of questions and I do my best NOT to be sarcastic. That way, I'm not arguing and they have to grapple with the scriptures instead of with me.

For example, if they tell me Jesus is "a god", I say, "Wow, that really puzzles me." They'll ask why and I'll say, "Well, there are some passages in the Bible that seem to me to say the opposite. Would you be willing to look at them and explain them to me?" Of course, they say yes, and I show them verses like Isaiah 43:10-11 and Isaiah 44:6 and Isaiah 44:24. I let them read out the verses.

If they get really quiet, I DON'T break the silence. I pray silently for God to open their eyes.

If they tell me about "lords many and gods many" or the "right" translation of John 1:1, I'll say, "I'm sorry, I just don't understand. This verse in Isaiah seems to me to be saying that although people may recognize all sorts of 'gods,' Jehovah doesn't recognize any as legitimate" or "Jehovah says he stretched out the heavens and earth by himself and I thought I heard you say he did it through Michael the archangel." Isn't that a contradiction?

If we come to an impass, sometimes I'll say, "Well, I hear you, but it just seems to me that this verse is saying... DO YOU SEE WHY I UNDERSTAND IT THAT WAY?" That's usually a key question. Honest dubs will say yes. Hardened dubs will say no but then they come across as real jerks while I am being a nice guy.

thetrueone

When you turn a mirror on a JW at the door they usually get scared and run away.

Truth and religion have never really met, even with the WTS. publishing corporation.

But hey if I owned a religious publishing house I would self proclaim my organization as the one and only true religion too.

wasblind

pr0ner, don't hold you breath, i'm still waiting on my return visits

i just enjoy when they come to my door now, i make it a point to

open my blinds and doors on sat mornings, for all those who live in

fear of JW's knocking on your door, learn from this site , JWfacts, and

Freeminds. And you will never be afraid again.

ShirleyW

Good point Wasblind !!

Unfortunately/and fortunately, I live in a co-op building and they're not allowed to go door to door here.

Sometimes I wish they did so I could give them a little "schooling" myself . . !

pr0ner

Justitia Themis - I'm going to use this line/thought if you don't mind.

Of course. I was glad I thought fast and said that. It forces them around just thinking you are "angry" at the religion. Even though she still tried to accuse me of only reading what I wanted to read. lol. I really hope she comes back.

wasblind - pr0ner, don't hold you breath, i'm still waiting on my return visits i just enjoy when they come to my door now, i make it a point toopen my blinds and doors on sat mornings, for all those who live in fear of JW's knocking on your door, learn from this site , JWfacts, and Freeminds. And you will never be afraid again.

Yea I wouldn't be too surprised if they she didn't come back. I really had her on the ropes and I suspect that she might assume I'm an "apostate" trying to use dirty tricks to get to her....which I am. However I hope that she bought the whole "I'm just a scholar" argument. I tried to be cautious of not using much JW lingo. I would say things like, "If I go to you're church or what do you call it again? A Kingdom Hall?". Stuff like that. So hopefully it threw her off enough to where she will want to come back. If she does though I bet it's with an elder.

djeggnog

@pr0ner:

Ha I love it when they come to the door.

I was "surfing" the various threads when I came upon this one that you started, and what an interesting read I found it to be! I especially like @Ding's contribution to your thread, to which post I'll be responding in this post momentarily. I was curious as to why it was you "love it" when Jehovah's Witnesses come to your door when I believe you know that these folks are not motivated to visit people because they are paid to visit people at their homes, and when I also believe you know that Jehovah's Witnesses are volunteering of their time in advance of Jesus' second coming -- something about which non-Witnesses hardly know anything, although you, of course, would have heard about Jesus' second coming since you were formerly one of Jehovah's Witnesses -- to inform folks as to why it is they should be interested in what the Bible says people ought to be doing, and how what the Bible says will impact not just their life, the lives of their family and the people they know, but the lives of every human being alive today.

Two dub females came to the door. One of them seemed pretty intelligent and down to the earth. The other one was well quite frankly a disaster. Firstly she pulled out a English WT and a Spanish Awake and was about to hand them to me. Not sure what I could do with the Spanish Awake but I stopped her. She was trying to place a WT \about what JWs believe.

So, as I understand your description here, you kinda bonded with one of these two sisters -- I'll call her "Nice Sister" -- but you didn't bond so well or approve of the other one -- I'll call her "Odd Sister." Isn't it true though that first impressions can often cause us to make judgments about people that we may have only just met so that we oftentimes find ourselves making immediate assessments of someone's character within less than a couple of minutes' time.

You seem to be indicating that you though Odd Sister to be rather "uncoordinated," or something to this effect -- I don't want to be here putting words into your mouth, as it were -- in that she tried to place in your hands a copy of what you describe in your post as a Watchtower about what things we believe. Well, actually, it was probably the August 2010 Awake! for on the cover of that English language magazine are the words "Jehovah's Witnesses-Who Are They?" Because this particular issue also contains the article, "What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe?" I suppose either Odd Sister or Nice Sister mentioned and/or showed this article to you since you mention it here.

As to why Odd Sister may have been handing you a Spanish language Awake! I have no clue, but perhaps you seemed to her to have been of Hispanic descent or she was nervous at the door and mistakenly pulled out two Awake! magazines instead of a Watchtower and an Awake!, one of them being the Spanish language magazine you saw. Who knows?

I told her I knew all to well who they were and what they believed. So she asked and I told her that while their individual members probably have good hearts they kind of just ambush people and quickly throw scriptures at them with out giving them time to think or actually debate.

That's interesting, but perhaps you were not someone that was nervous at the door so that you quickly threw several scriptures out at the householder when you would visit people at their homes in the door-to-door ministry as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but not all Jehovah's Witnesses are able to maintain a steady composure when working certain neighborhoods, or after a few minutes they manage to regain their composure at one door only to lose it again at the very next door. I'm comfortable speaking to one individual as I am in addressing 100 or 1,000 people, but I was raised in a Christian household and many of the folks that have such difficulties at the door may have only been baptized for less than five years having been a baptized publisher before getting baptized for less than a year!

You say that you have found individual members to have "good hearts," but that they tend to "ambush people" when they "quickly throw scriptures" at the folks to whom they are speaking without giving the householder "time to think" or to "debate," but, you, being a former Witness, would know that the economy of the time we're spending at people's doors is important since we are often covering the assigned territory with other brothers and sisters, five minutes -- ten minutes top -- is all we can afford to spend at a single door if the plan for the group is to visit all of the homes on a particular street or in a particular area.

I have to set an the example for others who are as inclined, as I am, to convert the householder's front door into a barber shop or a coffee shop, and allow themselves to be Q&A'd by one householder for 15, 20, 30 minutes' time with brothers and sisters kinda forced to stand around near or in front of the house listening to the Q&A because the brother and the sister at the door have totally forgotten that the people that rode with each of them in their cars expect to catch a ride back to their own cars, which they left at the Kingdom Hall when forming car groups to the territory.

Over the years I've heard some fine public talks given by some of our sisters at the front door, some of them pioneers, some of them not pioneers, and not one of them were tied to any notes, and, of course, many of the brothers find someone that wants to talk to us in the territory, and they could be at that door for at least an hour giving a public talk although talks are now limited to about 30 minutes.

We've got territories here in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills, West Hollywood and in the San Fernando Valley (Van Nuys, Encino, Woodland Hills) where it might seem the doors are wide open to us with no one trying to hide from us by pretending that they are not home, with people that warmly greet us anticipating our imminent visit to their respective homes, even promising (some of them) to see us in a moment as we get to them, only to have a phone planted to their ear as we finally arrive at their doors. Of course, we make the "see you later" motion with one of our hands, but it isn't an "ambush" when on way back to our cars we should catch them in front of their own homes without a phone to their ears, is it?

I keep it short and remind the householder that we have found many folks over the years were stunned to learn that Jesus is the proof that God exists. That I'm sure that he or she had heard more than once how God's love for the world led Him to give his only-begotten son as a ransom for our sake, but where most people that scripture at John 3:16 with the scripture in Isaiah that proves that God exists. I don't tell the householder from where in Isaiah I'm going to be reading because I want to leave the householder with something to think and I want to be brief, so I just read four verses -- Isaiah 42:1, 5-7:

Look! My servant, on whom I keep fast hold! My chosen one, [whom] my soul has approved! I have put my spirit in him. Justice to the nations is what he will bring forth. 5 This is what the [true] God, Jehovah, has said, the Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out; the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it: 6 "I myself, Jehovah, have called you in righteousness, and I proceeded to take hold of your hand. And I shall safeguard you and give you as a covenant of the people, as a light of the nations, 7 [for you] to open the blind eyes, to bring forth out of the dungeon the prisoner, out of the house of detention those sitting in darkness.

I tell the householder that what I just read to him or her was a prophecy concerning God's only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ, "the light of the world," about whom the prophet Isaiah wrote 730 years before he was born, and that Matthew's gospel confirms that Jesus is the one that the prophecy refers to as "my servant," the one who 'gave his life as a ransom' for us, which proves not only that God exists, but that is stands to reason that anyone that could predict 730 years in advance the exact year when mankind's savior would be born would have to be the true God.

I then tell the householder that I meet a lot of people and some of them are atheists, so the very next time you should hear one say there is no God, you can ask the person to explain to you how a prophet could have written about Jesus' birth some 730 years in advance if it were really true that God doesn't exist? See what he says and tell me about it the next time I come through here.

So in less than five minutes the householder learns from the Bible that Jehovah is the true God, that Jesus is God's only-begotten son, that God sent Jesus to give his life as a ransom and that the very fact that Isaiah recorded this prophecy concerning Jesus some 730 years before Jesus' birth is proof that God exists.

Notice that I referred to John 3:16, John 8:12, Matthew 1:25 and Matthew 12:18-21, but I only quoted one scripture: Isaiah 42:1, 5-7. Would you regard that as me "ambushing" someone?

Immediately I was asked if I had studied with JWs. lol I wasn't born yesterday so I told them, "no but I've done religious studies and one of the groups I focused on were Jehovah's Witnesses". She then asked if she could read me a scripture. So I obliged. Well she went to Romans, then before I could even say anything she tried to jump to some scripture in Luke or something. So I stopped her right there and said, "see you just tried to throw a scripture on before we could even discuss the scripture in Romans". So I basically derailed her which she was none too pleased about. Anyways I kept derailing most of their arguments.

So Sister Odd quoted something from Romans and you stopped her from quoting something from Luke, because you wanted to discuss the scripture in Romans with her, right? What exactly were you discussing with Sister Odd and Sister Nice that led to your "derailing most of their arguments"? If you can remember any of these arguments of hers that you derailed, I'd be curious to know what they were.

BTW, did you think that had you told her that you had once been one of Jehovah's Witnesses that she would not have talked to you? If not, then why did you lie and tell her that you had been a religious student and that your focus had been on Jehovah's Witnesses?

This of course led to them leaving on the basis that I was being hostile. Even though she was being very rude to me by trying to over talk me and accuse me judging [sic]. How surprising. Her partner who was much younger and cute I might add seemed to be a little bit embarrassed by her. So she would chime in and try to calm her down. She is supposed to be coming again probably on Saturday morning to "discuss" things. If she even comes. She told me to read John 6:44 and think about it. lolz.

So Sister Odd quoted some from Romans, she mentioned something from Luke and then, before she and Sister Nice left, Sister Odd asked you to read John 6:44, correct? Are you saying that they did not give you any time to think about or to debate the Romans scripture that was used? At any rate, I might suggest, if the two sisters do come back on Saturday morning as you and they agreed, maybe at the outset you should let them both know that if either of them is rude to do that you will have to show them to the door, that you only agreed to "'discuss' things" with them and that you did not agree to let them be mean to you. Just a suggestion.

I also got to try one of the things I've thought about recently. Which is I asked, "can you 100% without a doubt say that if I join your religion I will be saved?". She then started back peddling and trying to avoid. So I asked again, to which her friend chimed in and said, "well of course not we can't judge your heart".

Well, I don't know what "back peddling" was done, but Sister Nice didn't respond to your question. Your question was, "Can you 100% without a doubt say that if I join your religion I will be saved?" Whether you were formerly one of Jehovah's Witnesses or actively one of Jehovah's Witnesses or had been an atheist I would have answered your question with a "Yes." I have no doubt whatsoever that anyone that believes on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. (Acts 16:31) I see no problem with your question as phrased, @pr0ner.

So then I quickly said, " then why are you here? What reason do I have to join your religion?".

Well, one's own salvation would be the reason that one would join our form of worship, that one would begin to regularly associate with Jehovah's Witnesses in worship of the only true God. What other reason could there be?

The young one just had no answer at all and the older one brought up the, "look we are not here to argue with you". To which I said, "excuse me you came to my door. I didn't come to yours. You came here trying to convince me that YOU are right and I am wrong. So by default you did come here to argue". Again that kind of stopped her in her tracks and she had to go on to another point.

I would have told you that it isn't true that "by default" (whatever that means!) my talking to you at your home to discuss the Bible does not mean that I'm there to convince you of anything. Jehovah's Witnesses seek to make disciples, followers of Christ Jesus, and are not about making proselytes. IOW, we don't seek to force anyone to convert to our religion, so obviously we don't visit folks at their home to argue with them over religious viewpoints.

I really think the younger one might have been a little bad or something cause [she] had a smirk on her face like she was happy I was putting this older woman in her place when it came to bible stuff. It was all too easy as the older one wasn't too smart and was even making up her own words.

I'd really like to know what all of this is supposed to mean about Sister Nice having a smirk on her face because you had put Sister Odd in her place when it came to the Bible. You also say that Sister Odd "wasn't too smart and was even making up her own words," but I have no idea what this means so if you could just elaborate a bit on this, I'd appreciate it.

@Meeting Junkie No More:

You done good! DERAIL - excellent! Will be my new tactic as well...

Why?

@thetrueone:

Reverse psychology , I like it.

I didn't see anything in @pr0ner's post akin to "reverse psychology." What do you mean by this exactly?

One thing you can do that would really make a JW head spin is show by the WTS. own literature how commercially false they are about their doctrines. They are completely indoctrinated with end time prophecies

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I think having my head spin around could be rather delightful? Delight me with proof that I have been "indoctrinated" with anything.

when you pick their supposed dates such as 1914 they nervously back off and crumble.

Let's see: The year 1914 is the year when Jesus' invisible presence began, which is when the visible sign of Jesus' presence began with the outbreak of World War I. Is there anything in particular about the year 1914 that you believe I should, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses myself, "nervously back off and crumble"?

Its a disingenuous book publishing cult that programs people what to think and how to think all pretentiously set as if they were being spiritually guided .

Are you attacking Jehovah's Witnesses or is your attack really directed at the WTS, the publishing arm of Jehovah's Witnesses? If not both, then which?

@cantleave:

Great work. I hope she does come back, so you can update us.

In what respect did you find @pr0ner's "work " to be "great"?

@pr0ner wrote:

It was all too easy as the older one wasn't too smart and was even making up her own words.

@Justitia Themis wrote:

You did a great job 'refudiating' her arguments. :)

How exactly did @pr0ner's do what you say she did?

@pr0ner wrote:

"no but I've done religious studies and one of the groups I focused on were Jehovah's Witnesses

@Justitia Themis wrote:

I'm going to use this line/thought if you don't mind.

What 'line of thought,' if you don't mind?

@looloo:

nice one i liked the one about the young sister smirking !

Now why is that? You thought that part of @pr0ner's tale to be funny, did you?

@pr0ner wrote:

I asked, "can you 100% without a doubt say that if I join your religion I will be saved?".... So then I quickly said, " then why are you here? What reason do I have to join your religion?"

@Heaven wrote:

Classic! You nailed this one.

Nailed what one?

This is one of my biggest issues with any religion claiming they are the only 'true' one.

Well, if Jehovah is the true God (and He is!) and Jesus is the truth (and He is!) then those of us that listen to Jehovah and follow the truth in connection with Christ Jesus would have to be associated with "the only 'true'" religion. There's only one "narrow gate" and just one road that leads off into life; there is also just one way, and Jesus is "the Way." (John 14:6)

Regarding the WTS and JWs, no where in the Bible does it say handing out Watchtower and Awake! magazines ensures your eternal life. My Mom tried this one on me when I was a kid so I checked out the Bible. It simply isn't there. So if it's not guaranteed, why join? There is absolutely no point.

Not one of Jehovah's Witnesses has ever been taught that their handing out Watchtower and Awake! magazines would ensure anyone of gaining eternal life. Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach things that the Bible does not teach, and so you should not have expected to find such a false "doctrine" contained anywhere in the Bible. The guarantee, however, is that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and exercise faith in your heart that God raised Jesus up from the dead, that you will be saved, that is to say, that you will 100% be saved. (Romans 10:9) Jehovah is the God of the entire earth, and the promises of Jehovah, including life here on an earth made new, "is the hereditary possession of the servants of Jehovah, and their righteousness is from [Jehovah]." (Isaiah 54:5, 17) This is a promise that comes, not from Jehovah's Witnesses, but from they true God. (Jeremiah 10:10)

@Open mind:

I loved your response to "We didn't come here to argue"! Good job.

What was so lovely about @pr0ner's response? Why do you think the way she handled things on that occasion to have been such a "good job" in your opinion?

@pr0ner wrote:

I also got to try one of the things I've thought about recently. Which is I asked, "can you 100% without a doubt say that if I join your religion I will be saved?". She then started back peddling and trying to avoid. So I asked again, to which her friend chimed in and said, "well of course not we can't judge your heart". So then I quickly said, " then why are you here? What reason do I have to join your religion?"

@AnnOMaly wrote:

LOLOL! You did good!

Did she?

@pr0ner wrote:

I really think the younger one might have been a little bad or something cause had a smirk on her face like she was happy I was putting this older woman in her place when it came to bible stuff. It was all too easy as the older one wasn't too smart and was even making up her own words.

@AnnOMaly wrote:

You never know what's going on in this younger lady's head!

Meaning what? That she might have become stumbled over the way in which the older woman (Sister Odd) conducted herself at @pr0ner's home? I don't believe so, but I'm wondering what it is you mean.

It reminds me of the situations I got into (when I was young and green) with an older JW 'sister' who had known me from year dot. She was a very overbearing know-it-all who would interrupt and talk over me when it was MY turn. Real annoying, but I was too in awe of her to make an issue of it. It thrilled me no end when householders stumped her or got the better of her. I tried to intervene between her and the householder too sometimes to smooth things over.

Why were you thrilled when a householder "stumped" this "older JW sister 'sister'"? Were you and this sister at odds with one another for some reason so that you were looking for circumstances to arise that would make her more humble or what? Although you were "young and green," as you describe yourself as being, why didn't you help the sister instead of seeming to take sides against her with the householder "to smooth things over"?

One time (and I was still a young, wide-eyed, loyal dubbie), there was this guy who went on and on about Beth Sarim. She puffed out her feathers and said he was talking garbage. I turned to her (in front of him) and said he was correct, that what he described really did happen, that it was a matter of historical WT record. She was almost clucking like a bewildered chicken trying to save face. Priceless.

This situation you describe here must have been rather uncomfortable for this older sister to have found herself, so what exactly did you say to this interested person about Beth Sarim that was all a part matter of the "historical WT record"?

There isn't anything sinister about Beth-Sarim where J.F. Rutherford came to live for some 13 years, where he lived during the winters from 1929 until his death on January 8, 1942, due to his health, after he had lost one of his lungs following his imprisonment back in 1919 where he developed a severe case of pneumonia, is there? Rutherford had been back in forth between Brooklyn, New York, and San Diego, California, under doctor's care until someone made a direct contribution for the purpose of constructing a house in San Diego for his use. It wasn't as if Beth-Sarim was built at WTS expense, and after Rutherford's death, the property was conveyed to the WTS, who eventually sold the property as was made clear in the Watchtower of December 15, 1947.

Specifically, as to the zany idea that Jehovah's Witnesses had about the possibility of using Beth-Sarim to house Abraham, Joseph and David -- whose resurrection Jehovah's Witnesses had at that time anticipated to occur from Armageddon -- this notion as to these men being resurrected before the end of this system of things and serving as "princes in all the earth" (in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16) was abandoned as the Watchtower of November 1, 1950, which indicates that an adjustment in understanding occurred making it clear that pre-Christian men and women of faith would be resurrected after Armageddon. One must always keep in mind that Jehovah's Witnesses are neither perfect nor infallible, nor are any of the things printed by the WTS as aids to Bible study writings inspired by God. From what as to this Beth Sarim topic did this sister to whom you are referring here dissent from and so need to save face?

And look what happened to me years later! So you never know.

Did something that occurred when you were "young and green" cause you to leave the truth or were you disfellowshipped for some reason? What was it that happened to you "years later"?

@Soldier77:

rock on dude. great job!

What is that "great job" that the "dude" actually do here? (I wonder if @pr0ner permits herself to be referred to as a "dudette" or not, but is might be a bit more appropriate than "dude.")

@Ding:

Since JWs think they have the truth and no one else does, it's almost impossible to tell them anything directly.

Actually, Jehovah's Witnesses know that they have the truth.

They think it's their job to explain "the truth" to ignorant people at the door, so I let them.

No, they don't. We shouldn't be wasting our time trying to explain the truth to ignorant people, at the door or anywhere else for that matter. What you're saying here is not correct.

I simply ask lots of questions and I do my best NOT to be sarcastic. That way, I'm not arguing and they have to grapple with the scriptures instead of with me.

Oh, so you're among the "ignorant people" to which you were just referring. I didn't get that you might have been referring to yourself as ignorant.

For example, if they tell me Jesus is "a god", I say, "Wow, that really puzzles me." They'll ask why and I'll say, "Well, there are some passages in the Bible that seem to me to say the opposite. Would you be willing to look at them and explain them to me?" Of course, they say yes, and I show them verses like Isaiah 43:10-11 and Isaiah 44:6 and Isaiah 44:24. I let them read out the verses.

Well, what would you tell me? I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and, as it happens, I believe that Jesus is an immortal God and has been since his resurrection back in 33 AD (just as the apostle Thomas came to realize as can be gleaned by what he exclaims after Jesus' resurrection at John 20:28), and I, too, am familiar with Isaiah 43:10, 11, Isaiah 44:6 and Isaiah 44:24.

At Isaiah 43:10, Jehovah states that even his "servant" (Isaiah 42:1-7; 43:10) whom he had chosen -- that "servant" being prophetically the Lord Jesus Christ -- is one of His witnesses, even as Jehovah has His Witnesses today. Maybe you missed that part of the verse, so I'm stressing this just for you. Also, the context of Isaiah 43:10, 11, is very important, for it is about who is a true God -- an almighty God that can predict future events -- and who isn't a true God, such as those graven idols of wood that Israel had made to worship, who were just "molten images are wind and unreality." (Isaiah 41:29) I don't know; maybe you didn't realize this. Let me continue:

"Who is there among [these molten idols] that can tell this? Or can they cause us to hear even the first things? Let [these molten idols] furnish their witnesses.... The formers of the carved image are all of them an unreality, and their darlings themselves will be of no benefit; and as their witnesses they see nothing and know nothing, in order that they may be ashamed. Who has formed a god or cast a mere molten image? Of no benefit at all has it been.... He planted the laurel tree.... So he takes part of it that he may warm himself. In fact he builds a fire and actually bakes bread. He also works on a god to which he may bow down. He has made it into a carved image, and he prostrates himself to it. Half of it he actually burns up in a fire. Upon half of it he roasts well the flesh that he eats, and he becomes satisfied.... But the remainder of it he actually makes into a god itself, into his carved image. He prostrates himself to it and bows down and prays to it and says: "Deliver me, for you are my god." (Isaiah 43:9; 44:9, 10, 14-17)

At Isaiah 43:11, Jehovah says, "Besides me there is no savior." Is that a problem for you that Jehovah should say this when you know other places in the Bible -- scriptures like Luke 2:11, Acts 5:31, 2 Timothy 1:10 and Titus 1:4, and John 4:22 and 1 John 4:14 -- that describe Jesus as being a "savior," or as being "the savior of the world"? And Jehovah is also our Savior, is He not? (Titus 2:10; 3:4; Jude 25), Of course, Jehovah can be a Savior and he can raise up someone else as a savior, too, can he not? (Judges 3:9, 15) I mean, Jehovah is the true God with prerogatives like these, isn't he? (Jeremiah 10:10)

So while there might be to you a few Bible passages that seem to you to say that Jesus isn't a God, but if you were thinking to use Isaiah 43:10, 11, Isaiah 44:6 and Isaiah 44:24, well, if I were the Witness to whom you were saying these things, you would have another think coming!

If they get really quiet, I DON'T break the silence. I pray silently for God to open their eyes.

And to whom exactly do you pray? There is only one true God, whose name is Jehovah, and a Christian's prayers are properly directed to Jehovah through the Lord Jesus Christ, but I'm guessing that you don't believe in that God, so I'm wondering to whom do you pray and through whom if you aren't one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

If they tell me about "lords many and gods many" or the "right" translation of John 1:1, I'll say, "I'm sorry, I just don't understand. This verse in Isaiah seems to me to be saying that although people may recognize all sorts of 'gods,' Jehovah doesn't recognize any as legitimate" or "Jehovah says he stretched out the heavens and earth by himself and I thought I heard you say he did it through Michael the archangel." Isn't that a contradiction?

And as soon as you mentioned "Jehovah" and "Michael the archangel," which such a discussion between you and any one of Jehovah's Witnesses, your subterfuge would be over, for your having also used scriptures like Isaiah 43:10-11, Isaiah 44:6 and Isaiah 44:24 -- scriptures that trinitarians often use when seeking to support their viewpoint to Jehovah's Witnesses -- would "out" you as an apostate. I'm just telling you that in this you're not as smart or as covert as you might think yourself to be.

If we come to an [impasse], sometimes I'll say, "Well, I hear you, but it just seems to me that this verse is saying... DO YOU SEE WHY I UNDERSTAND IT THAT WAY?" That's usually a key question. Honest dubs will say yes. Hardened dubs will say no but then they come across as real jerks while I am being a nice guy.

You are just in your head with this. Like I said, covert this isn't, and if there is an "impasse," it's probably be in your head. (IOW, there won't be anything real actually taking place.)

@thetrueone:

When you turn a mirror on a JW at the door they usually get scared and run away.

Turn a mirror on me at any time; I won't get scared or run.

Truth and religion have never really met, even with the WTS. publishing corporation.

What is that supposed to mean? Is this a secret about which you aren't permitted to tell anyone? If not, pray tell.

But hey if I owned a religious publishing house I would self proclaim my organization as the one and only true religion too.

This is just a ridiculous statement and totally meaningless. Come again?

@wasblind:

pr0ner, don't hold you breath, i'm still waiting on my return visits i just enjoy when they come to my door now, i make it a point to open my blinds and doors on sat mornings, for all those who live in fear of JW's knocking on your door, learn from this site , JWfacts, and Freeminds. And you will never be afraid again.

Who knows, @wasblind? Sister Odd and Sister Nice could well make that return visit. Why do you need a return visit? Have you been considering making a return to God's organization or what?

@ShirleyW:

Good point Wasblind !!

What did @wasblind say that was such a good point? I didn't discern one.

Unfortunately/and fortunately, I live in a co-op building and they're not allowed to go door to door here. Sometimes I wish they did so I could give them a little "schooling" myself . . !

Oh, well!

@Justitia Themis:

I'm going to use this line/thought if you don't mind.

What line? This one from @pr0ner:

I asked, "can you 100% without a doubt say that if I join your religion I will be saved?".... So then I quickly said, " then why are you here? What reason do I have to join your religion?"

But why would you be using it? For fun and grins or for what purpose?

Of course. I was glad I thought fast and said that. It forces them around just thinking you are "angry" at the religion. Even though she still tried to accuse me of only reading what I wanted to read. lol. I really hope she comes back.

I think I missed something. Huh?

@wasblind wrote:

pr0ner, don't hold you breath, i'm still waiting on my return visits i just enjoy when they come to my door now, i make it a point to open my blinds and doors on sat mornings, for all those who live in fear of JW's knocking on your door, learn from this site , JWfacts, and Freeminds. And you will never be afraid again.

@Justitia Themis wrote:

Yea I wouldn't be too surprised if they she didn't come back. I really had her on the ropes and I suspect that she might assume I'm an "apostate" trying to use dirty tricks to get to her....which I am.

Oh, I see. Ok.

However I hope that she bought the whole "I'm just a scholar" argument. I tried to be cautious of not using much JW lingo. I would say things like, "If I go to you're church or what do you call it again? A Kingdom Hall?". Stuff like that. So hopefully it threw her off enough to where she will want to come back. If she does though I bet it's with an elder.

You may be able to deceive one or more Jehovah's Witnesses into not realizing that you are "an 'apostate' trying to use dirty tricks" to get to them, but I hope you know that my God is real, and that you cannot deceive Jehovah. Have fun.

@djeggnog

wasblind

EVIDENTLY, he's not real enough for you to be on this site with apostates, when you have specific orders not to be here from the GB and the WTS.

sabastious

To which I said, "excuse me you came to my door. I didn't come to yours. You came here trying to convince me that YOU are right and I am wrong. So by default you did come here to argue". Again that kind of stopped her in her tracks and she had to go on to another point.

/applaud!!!!!!!!!!!

-Sab

JW's came to the door

Soldier77

garyneal

Ding

thetrueone

wasblind

ShirleyW

pr0ner

djeggnog

wasblind

sabastious

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