Major flaw in the Society's 1914-Gentile Times doctrine

by peacedog 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • peacedog


    Well, then, peacedog, you should be able to find statements by Russell that do not line up with Rutherford's showing that was not the thinking before 1914 or even up to 1916 when Russell died.

    Yes, for sure, you are right. But since the Society changed the end date back to Russell's original end date anyway, I'm not sure the point is germane.

    Thanks for the links.

  • peacedog

    Essan, I believe the Society claims the Gentile Times ended at or very close to October 1, 1914.

  • PSacramento

    IF 1914 is suppose to eb the time of Jesus's return or the casting of Satan out of Heaven or whatever to do with Jesus, then ACTS 1 shows that they are incorrect:

    9 When he had said this, as they were watching, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 While he was going and they were gazing up toward heaven, suddenly two men in white robes stood by them. 11 They said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up toward heaven? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven .”

    Acts also mentions Jesus's views on people trying to predicte his coming:

    “It is not for you to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority

    And it even states WHO the apostles will be witness for:

    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

    In a nutshell, ACTS 1 undermines almost all of the Core JW doctrines.

  • peacedog


    Very true. There are many flaws in the Society's '1914-Gentile Times' doctrine.

    How about Matthew 28:18?

    18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

    The Society's claim that Jesus did not receive "All authority in heaven and on earth" until ~2000 years later is clearly contradicted by scripture. But we all know that JWs don't really believe the bible....

  • PSacramento

    Indeed, indeed...


    The International Bible Students made a mistake . They did not consider a period of 120 years that must be taken into account before Armageddon happens.

    The latest prediction is for the year 2011 AD ( check this usenet group alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ) which includes the period of 120 years:

    1884 AD + 120 years = 2004 AD and 7 years extra are for 7 days also from Noah's time of the Flood - Genesis 6.3;7.1-4.

    The end of the world could not happened in 1914 AD or any other date set forth till such period of 120 years is shown.

    The International Bible Students could provide the year 1874 AD so if we add 120 years we come to the year 1994 AD which should be the earliest prediction set forth by Jehovah's Witnesses . Their 1975 will not stand the scrutiny of the Bible as well.

    Since the year 7 BC is most likely date for Jesus' birth ( it was a jubilee year ) we come to the 1994 AD ( a jubilee year ) as the first reliable prediction .

    Had I knew that I would not have predicted the end of the world for 1991 AD.

  • jwfacts

    Excellent information peacedog.

    Regarding what Russell said, here are some quotes:

    "Remember that the forty years Jewish harvest ended October, A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete over throw of that nation j and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914 , and that likewise the overthrow of " Christendom" so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." In one hour" judg ment shall come upon her. Rev. 18:10, 17, 19." Studies in the Scriptures 2 The time is at Hand p.245

    "... overcomers shall be accounted worthy to escape the severest

    of the trouble coming upon the world we may understand the reference to be to the anarchous trouble which wili follow October, 1914..." p.


    Studies in the Scriptures 2 The Divine Plan of the Ages

    1913 ed

    "According to our expectations the stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912—culminating with the end of the “Times of the Gentiles,” October, 1914.*

    * See Vol. II, pp. 76-78. Accordingly the culmination of the mustering forces came in the Autumn of 1914 with the outbreak of the great European war—a stage in the overthrow of Satan’s Empire." Studies in the Scriptures 6 - The New Creation p. 579

    "It is but a few years before the full close of the time of trouble which ends the Gentile times; and when we remember the Lord’s words—that the overcomers shall be accounted worthy to escape the severest

    of the trouble coming upon the world we may understand the reference to be to the anarchous trouble which will follow October, 1914; but a trouble chiefly upon the Church may be expected about 1910 A.D."

    Thy Kingdom Come pp.364,365

  • possible-san

    Hi, peacedog.

    Thank you for your reply.

    Rutherford attempted to circumvent the problem by changing the end date for the Gentile Times.

    I think that this part is, probably, the most persuasive.
    Regardless of the prophetic issue, I think that you have revealed their "improbity."

    I did not realize until now that Rutherford has said at the Cedar Point convention in 1922 as follows.

    "The gentile times under the supervision of the god of this world ended August 1, 1914."

    This is an evident lie.

    I appreciate your education.


  • peacedog


    Thank you for those quotes.


    You're welcome.

    I think that this part is, probably, the most persuasive.
    This is an evident lie.

    I agree. Once we establish that the Society LIES, which we have done, then doctrine no longer matters. As a LIAR ORGANIZATION, they cannot be "God's Organization", regardless of what doctrines they do or do not teach.

    That said, however, the fact that Rutherford went so far as to change the end date of the Gentile Times shows how important it is to Watchtower doctrine that the First World War lines up with the end of the Gentile Times. This should not be overlooked.

    If it was not critically important to WT doctrine, Rutherford would not have changed the date of the Gentiles Times. If it was not critically important to WT doctrine, the WT$ today would not be lying to make it appear that the War began at the end of the Gentile Times:

    Well, after the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 man’s rule brought on two world wars and an era of violence surpassing even that of Noah’s days before the flood. --WT 10/15/1968 p.627

    The history books are there in the libraries to give us the details about World Wars I and II! Indeed, war of world proportions erupted at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. --WT 5/15/1983 p.23

    The reality is that World War I started before the end of the Gentiles Times, and therefore could not have have been a result of those times ending.

    According to WT calculations, the "fiery-colored" horse whose task it was to "take peace away from the earth" actually did no such thing, since at the start of his "ride" (on or after October 1, 1914), the earth was already embroiled in a World War.

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    I took a look at the timeline for World War I and I didn't really notice any noteworthy spike in intensity beginning in October.

    I thought I would check it out to see if the JWs could point to some kind of ramp up in involvement or ferocity of attacks during that month of October in 1914, and thus in typical spin doctor fashion rationalize the October date for the end of the Gentile Times and the subsequent ouster of Satan from the heavens as accurate and pivitol.

    It doesn't look like they would be able to do so - unless they propose that the first thing Satan did after being confined to the vicinity of the earth was to head to Canada and convince the normally peaceful Canadians to join in the battle and land troops in Britain.

    Check it out.

    June 28: Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary assassinated in Sarajevo by a Serbian activist.
    • July 28: Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.
    • July 29: Russia, Serbia's ally, orders the mobilisation of troops.
    • August 1: Germany, an ally of Austria-Hungary, declares war on Russia and demands the neutrality of Russia's ally France; France refuses and mobilises.
    • August 3: Germany declares war on France.
    • August 4: Germany invades neutral Belgium, as per the Schlieffen plan to knock-put France; Britain responds by declaring war on Germany.
    • August: Britain begins a 'Distant Blockade' of Germany, cutting off vital resources; declarations continue throughout the month, with the British, French and Russian Empires on one side (the Entente Powers, or 'Allies'), and the German and Austro-Hungarian on the other (the Central Powers), until everyone is officially at war with their opponents.
    • August 10 - September 1: Austrian invasion of Russian Poland.
    • August 15: Russia invades East Prussia.
    • August 18: The USA declares itself neutral.
    • August 18: Russia invades Eastern Galicia, makes fast progress.
    • August 23: Hindenburg and Ludendorff given command of the German Eastern Front.
    • August 23/24: Battle of Mons, where British slow German advance.
    • August 26 - 30: Battle of Tannenberg - Germany shatter the invading Russians.
    • September 4 - 10: First Battle of the Marne halts German invasion of France.
    • September 7 - 14: First Battle of the Masurian Lakes - Germany beats Russia again.
    • September 9 - 14: The Great Retreat (1, WF), where German troops retreat back to the river Aisne; the German commander, Moltke, replaced by Falkenhayn.
    • September 12 - October 24: First Battle of Aisne followed by the 'Race to the Sea', where Allied and German troops continually outflank each other to the north-west until they reach the North Sea coastline. (WF)
    • September 15: Cited, maybe legendarily, as the day trenches are first dug on the Western Front.
    • October 4: Joint German/Austro-Hungarian invasion of Russia.
    • October 14: First Canadian Troops arrive in Britain.
    • October 18 - November 12: First Battle of Ypres (WF).
    • November 2: Russia declares war on Turkey.
    • November 5: Turkey joins the Central Powers; Britain and France declare war on her.
    • December 1 - 17: Battles of Limanowa, in which Austrian forces save their lines and prevent Russia attacking Vienna.
    • December 21: First German air raid on Britain.
    • December 25: Troops share an unofficial Christmas Truce in the Western Front trenches.

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