Major flaw in the Society's 1914-Gentile Times doctrine

by peacedog 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • peacedog
    peacedog

    One of the major flaws (I say one because there are many) in the Society's '1914-Gentile Times' doctrine is an oft-overlooked one. Very simply, the Watchtower Society predicted the end of the "Gentile Times" for autumn of 1914; yet the First World War began in the summer of 1914 (July 28) and really was triggered in June of 1914 with the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. As such, the First World War actually lends no support whatsoever to the Watchtower Society's 1914-Gentile Times doctrine despite the fact that the Society has continuously offered it as support.

    Rutherford was very aware of this major discrepancy in the doctrine. In fact, he went so far as to change the end date of the Gentile Times to match up with the start of World War I. Russell had predicted the end of the Gentile Times for the autumn (October) of 1914; Rutherford simply changed the date to August 1, 1914 (the date he considered the First World War to have begun):

    ...the "times of the gentiles" expired just 2,520 years later, 1913 years and seven months after the Christian era had begun, or, in other words, August 1, 1914. All know that that day marks the outbreak of the World War, the time when our Lord served notice on Satan that his lease had expired. --WT 4/15/1922 p.126

    August 1, 1914, marked the end of the gentile times. It also marked the legal ending of the old world. There the ouster proceedings began, when he whose right it is took unto himself his power. --WT 1/1/1923 p.3

    The Society continued to claim August 1, 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times for several years before deftly switching back to the original (and current) claim of autumn, 1914.

    Despite switching back to autumn 1914 for the ending of the Gentile Times, the Society still couches their words (or they flat out lie) in an effort to lead the reader to the conclusion that the First World War began after (and resultant of) the ending of the Gentile Times. Consider:

    The history books are there in the libraries to give us the details about World Wars I and II! Indeed, war of world proportions erupted at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. --WT 5/15/1983 p.23

    "At the end of the Gentile Times"? Sorry, Watchtower Society, but World War I erupted *BEFORE* the end of the Gentile Times, not *AT* the end of the Gentile Times.

    Since the order of events that he set out back there shortly before his death lines up with the order of events that he depicts at Revelation chapter 6, it indicates that what that 6th chapter envisions shows that the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 and the outbreak of war on a world scale marked the start of his “presence” in his heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the conclusion of the system of things.” --WT 5/15/1983 p.23

    The Society says "the Gentile Times in 1914 and the outbreak of war on a world scale marked the start of his 'presence'". How is that possible when the "outbreak of war on a world scale" began *BEFORE* his "presence"?

    The Kingdom ambassadors were proclaiming that the Gentile Times had ended in 1914 and that the outbreak of World War I with all the horrible things accompanying it was the foretold proof that those “appointed times of the nations” had ended then. --WT 11/1/1964 p.652

    "The outbreak of World War I...was the foretold proof" that the Gentile Times HAD (past tense) ended? How could that be, when the outbreak of World War I occurred *BEFORE* the end of the Gentile Times?

    Well, after the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 man’s rule brought on two world wars and an era of violence surpassing even that of Noah’s days before the flood. --WT 10/15/1968 p.627

    The Society says that "after the end of the Gentile Times...man's rule brought on two world wars". After?? How so?? World War I started *BEFORE* the end of the Gentile Times, not "after".

    So it was not accidental that World War I erupted upon a peaceful world, to mark the end of those “seven times” in the lunar month of Tishri in 1914 C.E. --WT 3/1/1980 p.16

    The society says "World War I erupted...to mark the end of those [Gentile Times]". Except that it didn't. Because World War I erupted *BEFORE* the end of those Gentile Times.

    Actually, the Society unwittingly exposed the gaping hole in their own doctrine in just a few short paragraphs in the January 1, 1986 Watchtower magazine (page 6):

    So the ride on the white horse was to begin at some future time when Jesus Christ would be enthroned as the heavenly King of God’s Kingdom. At that time God would send him forth with the command: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.” (Psalm 110:2) But when does this take place?

    The crowning of Jesus Christ as heavenly King is described at Psalm 45:3-7. Then in Hebrews 1:8, 9 the apostle Paul quotes from this psalm and applies verses 6 and 7 to the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Detailed information and Scriptural proofs published by Jehovah’s Witnesses show that the coronation of Jesus Christ in heaven took place at the close of the Gentile Times, “the appointed times of the nations,” in the year 1914.—Luke 21:24.

    Hence, any interpretation that puts the horsemen’s ride earlier than the year 1914 could not be correct. Also, since the rider of the white horse was in the lead, the other horses and riders following would represent events that would take place along with, or some time after, his ride begins. The ride of these four horsemen, therefore, must occur from and after the beginning of “the time of the end” in 1914. It has been since then that “the last days” have been seen to be in evidence.—Daniel 12:4; 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 13.

    The Other Horses and Riders

    The second horse is “bright red,” or “fiery-colored.” (Revelation 6:3, 4, An American Translation) Its rider “was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another.” He was given “a great sword.” This proved true when 1914 saw the beginning of the worst war in all human history, the first global war. Back then it was called the Great War.

    These paragraphs clearly demonstrate the problem with the Society's 1914-Gentile Times doctrine. To summarize these paragraphs:

    1) The ride of the "white horse" would begin "when Jesus Christ would be enthroned as the heavenly King...at the close of the Gentile Times", which the Society says was autumn of 1914.

    2) Any interpretation that puts the white horse's ride earlier than autumn 1914 could not be correct.

    3) Since the white horse was in the lead, the ride of the other horsemen would follow and therefore could not take place before autumn, 1914.

    4) The "fiery-colored" horse (who could not ride prior to autumn, 1914) is blamed for World War I (which began in summer, 1914).

    Despite clearly stating that the "fiery-colored" horse could not ride prior to the end of the Gentile Times in autumn, 1914, the Society attributes World War I (an event which began in summer, 1914) to the ride of the "fiery-colored" horse. And therein lies the problem.

  • chrisjoel
    chrisjoel

    Enjoyed your research on this!...U know what any JW would say.,...:Well, before or after, it doesnt matter does it? The important thing is that the events happened around that time and JWs were there to point to the truth...blah blah blah...This point i think could mess them up though:

    The Society says "the Gentile Times in 1914 and the outbreak of war on a world scale marked the start of his 'presence'". How is that possible when the "outbreak of war on a world scale" began *BEFORE* his "presence"?

    Excellent point!

  • wobble
    wobble

    A number of us in my old Congo.asked this very question years ago, but the Cognitive Dissonance coupled with the old "Wait on jehovah" kept us from pressing the point , or worrying about it.

    But these questions and thoughts do have a cumulative effect, until one wakes up and the stink of Bulls**t is just soooooo strong you have to leave.

  • possible-san
    possible-san

    Well, in my opinion, for hardworking JWs, it does not matter.

    25 years ago, when I was an active JW, my friends (Japanese JWs) knew that well.

    *** w72 6/1 p. 351 Questions From Readers ***
    Questions From Readers
    Why did the beginning of World War I not coincide with the early part of October, when the “appointed times of the nations” ended?—U.S.A.

    possible

  • VM44
    VM44

    peacedog, very interesting research.

    possible-san, what was the answer given to that question?

  • possible-san
    possible-san

    VM44.

    Well, the part which I showed in the red color text is an emphasis part by the Watch Tower society.

    25 years ago, our friends and I (Japanese JWs) knew this material well.
    Therefore, I said, "for hardworking JWs, it does not matter."

    *** w72 6/1 pp. 351-352 Questions From Readers ***

    Questions From Readers
    Why did the beginning of World War I not coincide with the early part of October, when the “appointed times of the nations” ended?—U.S.A.
    As has often been shown in this magazine, the conferring of kingship over the nations on Christ Jesus took place in 1914 C.E., at the expiration of the “appointed times of the nations” or the Gentile Times. (Luke 21:24; Dan. 4:16, 17, 31, 32) Those “appointed times” began 2,520 years earlier, after the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. and the assassination of the Jewish governor Gedaliah. The murder of Gedaliah in the month of Tishri (September/October) (“at the seventh new moon,” Byington translation) prompted those Jews left remaining in the land of Judah to flee. (Jer. 41:1, 2; 43:2-7) By the time the fearful Jews fled to Egypt it must have been at least the middle of Tishri, to allow enough time for the events mentioned in the Bible as taking place between the assassination and the flight. (Compare Jeremiah 41:4, 10–42:7.) This would place the start of the Gentile Times about Tishri 15, 607 B.C.E.
    At the end of the Gentile Times, about Tishri 15 (October 4/5), 1914 C.E., Revelation 11:15 was fulfilled: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ.” By enthroning his Son Jesus Christ, Jehovah God took his power to rule as King over the world of mankind. The rulership of the great Adversary, Satan the Devil, was due to end.
    Being the ‘ruler of the world’ of mankind alienated from God, Satan certainly did not want to see the Kingdom take full control of earth’s affairs. (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) Over nineteen centuries earlier he maneuvered matters in such a way that, had it not been for divine intervention, Herod the Great would have killed the infant Jesus. (Matt. 2:13) Similarly, even before the birth of the heavenly kingdom, Satan readied himself and his demons for an attack. This is symbolically described at Revelation 12:3-5, where we read: “Another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child. And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne.”
    It should not be surprising, then, that World War I broke out about two months before the end of the Gentile Times, and hence before the birth of the symbolic “son” or heavenly kingdom. Satan the Devil did not need to wait until after kingship over the nations had been placed in the hands of Jesus Christ to maneuver the nations into a large-scale war. The start of that sanguinary conflict was doubtless part of his scheme to blind persons to what had happened in the heavens in fulfillment of Bible prophecy and also, if at all possible, to hinder the Kingdom from ruling over the world of mankind.

    possible

  • blondie
    blondie

    I find it helpful to go back to the publications of Russell from that time. Perhaps your research could go there.

    http://www.ctrussell.us/

  • peacedog
    peacedog

    Blondie:

    Russell died during the First World War, which he (and the Society) expected to escalate into Armageddon. So this wasn't a problem for Russell and didn't become a problem for the WTS until after the end of WWI. Hence Rutherford, in 1922, deceitfully changing the end of the Gentile Times to line up with the start of the war.

    possible-san:

    Of course it does not matter for die-hard JWs. Sadly, nothing does. Also, thanks for posting the QFR.

    The QFR is nonsense, of course. The Society is faced with a huge problem, and the '72 QFR is an attempt to circumvent it. Rutherford attempted to circumvent the problem by changing the end date for the Gentile Times.

    There are two important points in all of this, imo, and neither is changed by the '72 QFR.

    First, the start of WWI has NOTHING to do with the ride of the "fiery-colored" horse. The Society establishes this fact in the '86 WT when they say that the horsemen could not have started their "ride" until AFTER October, 1914.

    So here's the question for JWs: How did the fiery-colored horse 'take peace away from the earth' (which Revelation said he would) when the earth was already embroiled in a WORLD war?

    Second (and perhaps most important), the WTS has outright lied to keep up the pretense that the outbreak of WWI was a result of the end of the Gentile Times in autumn, 1914:

    Well, after the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 man’s rule brought on two world wars and an era of violence surpassing even that of Noah’s days before the flood. --WT 10/15/1968 p.627

    I've said before and will no doubt say again: All doctrine aside, the Watchtower Society is a LIAR ORGANIZATION. This fact alone conclusively proves they do NOT have "the truth", they are NOT the "true religion", and they CANNOT possibly be "God's organization".

  • blondie
    blondie

    Well, then, peacedog, you should be able to find statements by Russell that do not line up with Rutherford's showing that was not the thinking before 1914 or even up to 1916 when Russell died.

    I would suggest looking a histories from the Bible Students.

    http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/bsllinks/History.htm

    http://www.biblestudents.net/history/

  • Essan
    Essan

    Hasn't the Society given a precise date in 1914 (other than August 1st), rather than just "autumn" for the end of the Gentile Times? I seem to recall they did at one time. Perhaps Russell did so.

    Showing a date compared to a date is even more powerful than a date compared to "autumn", it highlights the problem even more. And if you can show that they once specifically had a date later in the year, then it shows that by now saying 'Autumn" they still accept the date given earlier, but they are trying to hide the discrepancy by being more vague in using "Autumn".

    Great work Peacedog. For intelligent and logical JW's (the minority unfortunately) the information you present would certainly expose this doctrine as flawed.

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