Reform or dissolve Watchtower and questions?

by ruruj 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • moshe

    The free elder KH model is going to run into trouble- well it already has- book study is gone and talks on Sunday are now 1/2 hour- the Watchtower study is a quick in and out job, now. The next thing to cut again is the theocraptic school and service meeting. The d2d & pioneer work is bound to be getting cut back, so we'll see a reduction in the school and service meeting. Elders need to have no more than a 1/2 hour of scripted platform work a week. Maybe the service meeting will soon be a 20 minute video feed from Bethel, with 10 minutes of local needs information by an elder.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    People who are empowered to think for themselves will always choose Freedom over Slavery.

    Absolutely. As the Captain of the Axiom from Wall-E said, "I don't want to survive. I want to LIVE!"

    Actually, there is much in Wall-E that is a metaphor for the WTS and the Dub lifestyle, IMO.

  • Essan

    I tend to agree that you can't 'reform' the Watchtower. Everything that is unique about it is what is wrong with it - which is to say that if everything wrong with it was 'reformed', there would be nothing left, nothing unique about it and hence no reason for it to exist, and so it's membership would evaporate.

    It's dying anyway. It's just dying a slow painful death. Anything that can be done to speed up that process and 'put it out of it's misery' sooner would be a merciful act for all concerned, IMO.

    So I say, dissolve.

  • I quit!
    I quit!

    I don't see how it could be reformed. It is a mind control cult. That is what holds it together. There are so many things wrong with it that only way they can prevent their members from see the problems is by fear and intimidation. If they opened up to change and allow members to think for themselves they would have to admit that the whole thing was founded on the false premise that Jesus came back and chose them(you pick the date). If Jesus didn't choose them then why would it be wrong to learn from other religions. They only create the need for themselves by convincing you that they are special and Christ came back and picked them. They would also have to admit their teachings on blood are wrong and all the deaths they caused were pointless. That df'ing and shunning people for not agreeing with their false teachings is wrong. They would have to admit that they have been sending people from door to door with a false message about a kingdom that never was established and that God wasn't going to kill even that didn't accept this false message. Even their name is false and they would have to owe up to that. There wouldn't be much left and no one would hang around once it all came out in the open.

  • Gayle

    The WTS will not be willing to 'reform' any more than the Catholic Church was will to reform in the 16th century. The people back then who became thinking people and disgusted with the rule, control, teachings and totalitarism could not do anything to change the CC. They could only move on. Some gathered to their own groups and Protestantism began. Thus, ex-JWs move on and gather to Internet sites to voice their thoughts. Most become very individualistic and understandably have reservations to even "join" groups.

    It would take "humility" for the leadership/GB of the JWs to reform. I don't see any evidence of that.

  • steve2
    I don't see how it could be reformed. It is a mind control cult.

    I agree - but possibly for different reasons. The mind control aspect is the least of the difficulties - because, as Luther discovered, once a dissident splinter group gains momentum from a dominant bigger group, there's no holding that dissident group back.

    The main barrier to reform is every dissident would have a different vision of what reform looks like. There'll be those who want to stick as close as possible to Watchtower theology gets whilst others will go for evangelical-flavoured aspects and others for fundamentalist approaches. Still others will seek to have reform around social issues (such as tolerance for presently disapproved, etc).

    The best reform is at the individual level.

  • ruruj

    Definitely, reformation is not the way for this website. So, I amicably agree.

    Leaving, staying, neutral, or "wait-and-see" will be our indisputable choice and responsibility.

    However, I encourage you to share your real & truthful experience and knowledge with your open peers, friends, neighbors and family.

    We will do this neither to persecute nor to stigmatize JWs. We do this to inform your open peers, friends, neighbors and family of what may happen to you in the future if they chose to consider and study from WT.

    JWN may need to add a feature that would enable those willing to publish their experiences and personal tragedy. Who knows, there might be a pattern. So when your friends get a visit from me, then they could say "no thank you! I've heard enough!". I'll understand and won't bother following-up with a return visit.

  • ziddina

    Ruruj, it's a toss-up between loss of life due to refusal of blood-transfusions, or damage done by paedophiles within the ranks...

    Given a choice, I guess I'd choose the blood transfusion issue first, then the paedophilia - and the blind eye that the Watchtower Society has turned towards the paedophilia 'paradise' they've created within their organization, has its own body count...

    If the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society changed those two policies - eliminated ALL edicts against ANY type of blood transfusion, and made the list of suspected AND CONFIRMED paedophiles available TO THE POLICE FOR INVESTIGATION AND PROSECUTION....

    That would go a VERY LONG WAY towards reforming the WatchTower Society into an organization that people would feel comfortable within...

    Of course, that's probably NOT going to happen. The WatchTower Society has backed itself into an unescapable corner; any reversal of policy now would open them up to MULTIPLE LAWSUITS - and the Gov.Bod and others with vested interests in the group won't let that happen...

    Nice try, however...


  • ruruj


    Pedophilia and blood transfusion are the current heavy hitting issues because they involve civil statutes and life or death.

    Let me point-out that this is such a big problem with WBTS because of its authoritarian and repressive policies.

    I'm sure there are other issues WBTS ignorantly contributed to its victims. For example:
    - Disfellowshipping intense enough to cause an offender to commit suicide. Preaching shunning that destroys families, and make it impossible for the offender to return
    - Abuse and/or misuse of authority. Assuming to be marriage counsellors. Flip-flopping of policies. Promoting harmful meddling and gossiping during field service. Promoting idealistic comparisons - causing family conflicts because they feel the pressure to conform to be like the model elder family.
    - Mind control: consciences being modeled to the mentally closed member who exerts the most influence. Everyone must conform, otherwise, you are suspected that something is wrong with you.

    Therefore we should improve in highlighting these symptoms through effective sharing of knowledge and experience as I mentioned earlier.

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse
    Absolutely. As the Captain of the Axiom from Wall-E said, "I don't want to survive. I want to LIVE!" Actually, there is much in Wall-E that is a metaphor for the WTS and the Dub lifestyle, IMO.

    I agree; the same applied to Happy Feet too.

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