Debator you talk total sh*t, just like the watchtower.
"Come Be My Follower" - Christendom is bad for sponsoring charities and feeding the poor - what?
by Bonnie_Clyde 38 Replies latest jw friends
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isaacaustin
debator said:
They are pointing out the obviousness of Christendom dropping of our main tasks as christians which is to take care of the flock, to preach, to teach, feed, rebuke, to take care of God's People. Making the whole message about random acts of charity to anyone however worthy is simply not doing all that is assigned for us as Christians to do.
My reply: As opposed to the org micromanaging and taking control of every single aspect of their members lives through their legalistic and authoritarian ways? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
Debator said:
StAnn saying a few scriptures in the churches themselves requiring people to come to the church to hear is not preaching work. Jesus showed us physically how to do the preaching work and it means going personally to the people not expecting them to come to you. Paul travelled thousands of miles under inspiration of this command.
My reply: The scriptures merely say 'this good news will be preached...'. How this is to be done is not spelled out...although Acts does show examples in public squares as well as in the temple.
Debator: How important do you rate going from door to door and preaching God's message of salvation to people?
My reply: Door to door knocking? Slow, antiquated...not biblically precedented. JWs of course do not even preach God's message of salvation in the door to door knocking so those poor lost souls are simply wasting their days, sacrificing them to the cult.
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Bonnie_Clyde
I remember a woman in the d2d work who asked why JW's don't do anything to help the community. I pointed out that in a way we do--we have helped a lot of people break free of drug and alcohol addiction. Later it dawns on me that other churches could say the same but most of them do much much more. I saw an article in a local paper about a bunch of church members who got together on a Saturday morning and cleaned up the yard of an older couple and washed their windows. The witnessses might think of doing something like that - but after they're done with their Saturday morning magazine work, they have to take care of their own needs. I remember an ex-elder from another congregation who told us he was removed as an elder because he didn't put enough emphasis on door to door. He had actually organized a group to cut firewood for an older couple so they could heat their home--but this took the brothers away from the ministry.
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isaacaustin
JWs like to use James 2...faith without works is dead as a proof text. They claim they are the only ones backing up their faith with works. Even if the text mean what they say, on what basis do they get to define what those works are? If you read the first few chapters, you would see the works mentioned are not preaching the gospel, but helping the poor, elderly, and underprivelaged.
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RosePetal
Christians preach the [TRUE] gospel of Christ to the needy and the poor as well as food and aid, not one without the other. At last that is what I am having a share in. I feel I have a lot of making up to do.
PROV 19 v 17 'HE WHO IS KIND TO THE POOR LENDS TO THE LORD. HE WILL REWARD HIM FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE. NIV
PROV 21 v 13 'IF A MAN SHUTS HIS EARS TO THE CRY OF THE POOR, HE TOO WILL CRY OUT AND NOT BE ANSWERED. NIV
RosePetal
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OUTLAW
Debator/Reniaa..
Peddling WBT$ Crap won`t feed or cloth the poor..
Give us the address of one WBT$ second hand store..
Give us the address of one WBT$ soup kitchen..
There are none..There`s no money in it for the WBT$..
..........................OUTLAW
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AGuest
They are pointing out the obviousness of Christendom dropping of our main tasks as christians which is to take care of the flock, to preach, to teach, feed, rebuke, to take care of God's People.
Can you point out to me, please, dear Debator (peace to you!), where Christ said that these were the "main" tasks?
Making the whole message about random acts of charity to anyone however worthy is simply not doing all that is assigned for us as Christians to do.
And yet, when asked "who really is our neighbor" (after saying that we "MUST love our neighbor "as" [our]selves") my Lord gave the account of the "Good Samaritan" and using that one's example said to his disciples:
“Go your way and be doing the same yourself.”
What about his admonition to the young man who wanted to be "perfect"? Was he not told to go and sell ALL of his belongings and GIVE TO THE POOR? What of the first century Body who combined and redistributed their belongings so that everyone had... versus giving it all to the temple (which is CORBAN!)?
You don't get this, dear Debator (Reniia?)... because those you follow don't get it because THEIR ulterior motive... monetary gain and power among men... is different than yours. But the TRUTH is just like their accusations against the Catholic Church, they, too, are just using you and those like you to increase THEIR gain. They are among the hypocrites that my Lord spoke of when he said:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees... HYPOCRITES! You DEVOUR widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers!" Matthew 23:14 (interestingly, this verse isn't even in your Bible; that, is, unless you refer to the NWT Ref. Bible and there it's only in the footnote. Wonder why that is?)
And HOW do they "devour widows' houses"? By even suggesting that someone with spouses and/or children will/leave their property/insurance to the WTBTS... and then TAKING such property/insurance! They are ROBBING God's "house" by doing so! They are guilting people into the giving their money to their "temple"... rather than care for their one fleshly family members... which is CORBAN and a practice condemned by my Lord, in VIOLATION of the command to "honor" one's parents... and the TRUE "fast" of JAH:
“Is not this the fast that I choose? To loosen the fetters of wickedness, to release the bands of the yoke bar, and to send away the crushed ones free, and that YOU people should tear in two every yoke bar? Is it not the dividing of your bread out to the hungry one, and that you should bring the afflicted, homeless people into [your] house? That, in case you should see someone naked, you must cover him, and that you should not hide yourself from your own flesh?" Isaiah 58:6, 7
StAnn saying a few scriptures in the churches themselves requiring people to come to the church to hear is not preaching work.
Yet, your leaders do it. Can you spell "hypocrite"?
Jesus showed us physically how to do the preaching work and it means going personally to the people not expecting them to come to you.
You are in error, dear Debater, as my Lord did both.
Paul travelled thousands of miles under inspiration of this command.
And you? How about your elders? The CO's? GB members? Oh, yes, that's right... they take airplanes... and first class, no less.
How important do you rate going from door to door and preaching God's message of salvation to people?
There was no "going from door to door", dear Debator, nor is there any verse to support that false teaching. My Lord sent out his disciples, sometimes in twos... to those "who were deserving". Who were such "deserving" ones? HE chose. He sent his disciples to SPECIFIC people, whom HE had determined were "deserving." They were NOT random. And Paul didn't preach from random "house to house". He went from the house of ONE Body member... to the house of ANOTHER Body member... sharing what he had with them... IN THEIR HOUSES. How do we know that is what he meant? We only need to look at who he was speaking TO:
"However, from Mi·le´tus he (Paul) sent to Eph´e·sus and called for the older men of the congregation.When they got to him he said to them: “Y OU well know how from the first day that I stepped into the [district of] Asia I was with you the whole time,slaving for the Lord with the greatest lowliness of mind and tears and trials that befell me by the plots of the Jews;while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOUpublicly and from house to house." Acts 20:17-20
The problem is the misleading teaching of your leaders that Paul was saying here that he taught "the public", when in fact he was saying... to the older men of the congregation... that he taught THEM... in full view of all others. Meaning, he didn't hide who he was... or what he was doing or saying.
But that your leaders really are hypocrites are born out THEIR words as set forth on pages 69-70 of "The Proclaimer's Book" where they refer to the clergy of "Christendom" as:
"A bigoted group of men who systematically endeavor to throttle all Bible teaching... unless it comes through them."
I don't believe I have EVER seen a more blatant example of the "pot... calling the kettle 'black'."
You have been misled, dear Debator, and being misled still. And you are defending the WRONG "truth." Rather than putting your energies into defending this daughter of the Harlot... you SHOULD be defending the One she lyingly claims to be her husbandly owner, the REAL Truth, Christ (John 14:6, which IS in your Bible!)... who they go around at every turn... and whose "seat" they now place themselves in (Matthew 23:2, 3).
I bid you peace... as well as ears to hear and eyes to see the Truth... and the TRUTH of this matter.
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and a slave of Christ, the One and Only Truth,
SA
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Dogpatch
I spent 8 years as a JW in almost all capacitries, travelled the world; then spent years as a pastor traveling with Christian from "Christendom."
JWs are the cheapest schmucks of all when it comes to tipping, charity in disasters, giving to their kids, etc.
They learn it from their cheap-assed leaders.
It testifies to what kind of "God" they worship, they are just like the tribal "Jehovah."
Christians are about the same as regular people, but when they believe in a cause, they will give much more. Probably because they have a much more positive outlook on life.
Randy
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StAnn
Debator, the charitable works of Christendom are not random acts of kindness. They are highly organized and spread throughout the world and don't discriminate. They help anyone who needs help, whether or not the recipient is a Christian.
Seems like I remember reading on here about a year ago about how some special pioneers in an African country were going to have to pull out because Catholic Social Services was leaving (forced out for political reasons by a corrupt government) and the special pioneers would no longer have access to free health care without the Catholics. Anybody remember that story?
Regarding preaching the good news, we preach from the pulpit; we preach on the television; we preach on the radio; we preach door to door (the Catholics and Mormons do this, which you have ignored); but mostly we try to preach by the way we live our lives so that others can see the effect that Our Lord's love for us has had on us. No one in their right mind who looks at the life of a JW would be attracted to the cult because of the total lack of love.
Debator, a little honesty from you would go a long way toward gaining some respect for your arguments.