Is the Bible Authentic?

by chron82 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    How would you answer the following questions:

    1. Do you believe the bible is the authentic word of God or do you believe it is a hoax?

    This is a false dilemma. I believe it is a diverse collection of religious writings esteemed by Second Temple Jews and second-century Christians. For the most part these writings do not claim a supernatural, divine origin (prophetic oracles are a significant exception, yet even these do not represent predictions set in stone), despite later opinions, whether intracanonical or not, that such writings are divinely inspired. These are genuine ancient documents and valuable for attesting the historical development of religious ideas. The word "hoax" implies that they are faked documents, like the many modern-day apocrypha, such as the Kolbrin Bible which is clearly of recent origin. Perhaps the term is more appropriate for pseudepigrapha and pseudonymous writings, which the Bible certainly has (Daniel and 2 Peter come to mind, among others), yet even here "hoax" implies a motive that may not have been operative in the use of pseudonymity as a literary convention.

    2. Why do you feel one way or the other?

    Explained above. The term "hoax" is not appropriate for the many writings in the Bible that make no intimation of having any sort of divine origin.

    3. How sure are you of your belief on a scale of 1 - 10?

    4. How would you reply to the Watchtower's list of evidence that they claim proves that the Bible is authentic. In particular:

    The term "authentic" can be interpreted many ways. Authentic of what? This is a loaded term that betrays a certain interpretive stance towards the writings contained in the collection called the "Bible". If, say, the book of Jonah makes no claim of being the divine inspired inerrant Word of God, but in fact was written as I believe it was as a piece of satire, how is it "inauthentic" if it contains fantastic and comic elements? It is only when it is read as a historical narrative that a question of "historical accuracy" has any bearing on the book's authenticity. To me, the question of authenticity is more legitimate when the text itself is of questionable provenance or date (such as modern fakes like the Jehoash Tablet), or authorship when the book contains later accretions (such as the interpolations into the epistles of Ignatius).

    - Scientific Accurarcy

    Of course it is no more accurate than any other ANE text from the same era. Many of the arguments for scientific accuracy are spurious, and many others reflect ancient scientific knowledge.

    - Historical and Archeological Accuracy

    It varies. There are many texts in the OT that are important historical sources (but still biased and socially situated) and many that are not reliable at all but reflect ideas of a later age.

    - Fulfillment of Prophecies

    Again, no more reliable than prophecies made by any other ANE society. There are many hermeneutic techniques that many use to interpret prophecy that actually make poor sense of the text itself. Some believers prefer to use the prophecy to override history than admit that the prediction did not come to pass the way foreseen. Or the prophecy may be interpreted in creative ways to make the oracle "fit" with later events. The history of the interpretation of Daniel is filled with many such examples, including the common Christian interpretation of the "Seventy Weeks" vision which makes very poor sense of what the text actually says. Also later textual accretions may make the prophecy fit better with history than the original wording; this is probably the case with the "seventy years" prophecy in Jeremiah. And the oracle may be written post eventu, as is the case with most of ch. 11 of Daniel or the Animal Apocalypse of 1 Enoch. Or later readers may misconstrue the original setting and context of the oracle, as is the case with the Cyrus references in Deutero-Isaiah.

    - Candor of Bible Writers

    Many of the claims of "candor" depend on dubious opinions of authorship and date. Nor is candor the strict province of ancient Jewish or Christian writers. The pro-Achaemenid scribes in Babylon showed great "candor" in describing how their last native king (Nabonidus) was impious and a lousy ruler. What may appear to be candor may simply represent propaganda by one group against another. The Bible does not present a single point of view, despite what many readers believe.

    Thank you in advance for sharing your personal opinions. It is often difficult to get people to answer questions like these in person. I really appreciate your help!

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    My personal path is very complicated and long, it includes many books or references in books, many videos, many internet sites.
    It is difficult to steer someone else's path on this subject or even to recommend a similar path. One good book was "The Bible Unearthed." But others are books by Hitchens and the like. Even trying to get people to look that way would suggest to them that they should not believe in the Bible. I definitely don't try to steer people a certain way about this.

    1. Do you believe the bible is the authentic word of God or do you believe it is a hoax?

    Similar to the Governing Body, many genuinely believe the scriptures to be genuine. However, I do believe the writers did not genuinely believe their writing was from God. Editors in much later years edited the writings and made them into "the word of God." There was "hoax" involved, but many parties that helped were duped.

    2. Why do you feel one way or the other?

    I started to look into WT teachings and how they twisted the Bible. I found it important to also look at the Bible in order to understand better how I wound up in a dangerous mind-control cult.

    3. How sure are you of your belief on a scale of 1 - 10?

    TEN.

    4. How would you reply to the Watchtower's list of evidence that they claim proves that the Bible is authentic. In particular:

    - Scientific Accurarcy

    The Bible is not a science book, but it clearly has the whole flood thing wrong. Science has shown us that there are waaaaay too many species of insects alone to make that event possible, plus the isolation of animals to Australia. Plus, the amount of water and the atmospheric pressure it would have caused could not have allowed life to exist before the flood. DNA science clearly shows the spread of Man from Africa and traces our common ancestory back to a point further than the Bible allows. Science is not as absent of evidence of evolution as fundies tell us.

    - Historical and Archeological Accuracy

    The Exodus never happened. See "The Bible Unearthed."

    - Fulfillment of Prophecies

    It never happened. Prove that anything was written before it "foretold" anything.

    - Candor of Bible Writers

    A Jewish style.

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    Yes, the Bible is authentic, authentic plagiarism. Problem is, the Jews either didn't properly understanding the cosmogeny myths they lifted from older writings, or they purposely concealed them in literal stories to dominate and control the people. My opinion is the latter, and the Bible has allowed them to deceive the world ever since, to the point of being on the brink of a Zionist New World Order with its headquarters in Jerusalem.

    Fortunately for us, there is a hierarchy in place that keeps these Khazarian Satanist bastards on a short leash, otherwise they would have cored the earth like an apple a long time ago (the technology they stole from Tesla). They have been working with the negatively oriented Annunaki, whom a Christian would call "the demons". Full UFO disclosure of benevolent alien involvement and the collapse of the dark cabal and their financial system is only a matter of a very short time. This would be what was foretold in the Bible as the fall of Babylon.

    PS

  • Caedes
    Caedes
    1. Do you believe the bible is the authentic word of God or do you believe it is a hoax?

    I think the word hoax is a little strong, I'm sure that at least some of the writers of the bible honestly thought they were transcribing god's word. Just because they believed in what they were doing doesn't make it authentic. So, no, it is not the word of god.

    2. Why do you feel one way or the other?

    I don't believe in supernatural entities so that makes the bible simply another book.

    3. How sure are you of your belief on a scale of 1 - 10?

    I can't dis-prove the existence of god/s but then I can't disprove santa, in as much as I am certain that santa doesn't exist, god doesn't either.

    4. How would you reply to the Watchtower's list of evidence that they claim proves that the Bible is authentic. In particular:

    - Scientific Accuracy

    it's not scientific at all, the sun was here long before the earth was no matter what it says in Genesis. Pi has never been 3, a worldwide flood never happened, nobody has survived for three days in a fish, dead people don't come back to life, people can't be turned to salt and the exodus never happened.

    - Historical and Archeological Accuracy

    If a novel mentions a current well known political figure/newsworthy event/geographical location does that make everything in the novel factual? No, so the same applies to the bible.

    - Fulfillment of Prophecies

    Written after the fact or so vague that could apply to anything.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Is the Bible Authentic?

    The Bible has been a foundation and framework for my life since I was born. It has shaped how I see the world.

    It does so for everyone in our culture, even those that don't believe in it.

    The book has such power that it even shapes those that don't believe in it.

    It speaks to me with an authentic voice.

    Look at how many threads it spawns here. How many discussions?

    This book is important.

    BTS

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    All religious writings, including the Bible, are man's thoughts about God, not God's thoughts about man.

    Does the creation account in Genesis have any support from science?????

    Does the flood account have any support from science?????

    Was there a good reason for Jesus to kill a fig tree just before he died?????

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    I agree with your comments BTS, the Bible certainly is a most important book. However, that is not the subject of this topic. Chron82's primary question was to ask if the Bible is the authentic word of god?

    How would you answer that?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Yes it is, as the people that wrote it understood it to be in the time and place where they lived.

    BTS

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    I believe the whole theme is a scam. Mankind is supposedly undeserving because of one couple doing something they weren't supposed to (and for no good reason: That fruit was just going to fall to the ground and rot anyways). You get a "redeemer" that supposedly died to redeem us from that act, and there is a ton of conditions that need to be met before you can benefit from it. Now, I believe that this "deliverance" is always going to be just out of reach from the present, and it will never come. God actually distresses us to create this "need" for a better condition, then promises to deliver one if we obey him. All a complete scam.

    I, for one, am not willing to believe that we all came from the lineup from Adam to Noah. Rather, I believe Adam is nothing more than a representative for the human race, the lineage of questionable value and accuracy, and the names likely made up (like the 7.3 million on the publisher report in last year's yearbook). The flood was a local event, and Noah built a boat (not a big ark) to reach the outer edge of this local flood (as did the animals). Otherwise, why would kangaroos have ended up only in Australia and mountain lions only in the Americas?

  • JWoods
    JWoods

    There are two important questions being addressed here:

    1) - Is the Bible Authentic? I think it is probably about as authentic (in the sense of being a reasonable facsimile through translation) as any other documents from this era. As authentic probably as the works of Virgil, or the Chinese chronicles of their history back thousands of years.

    2) - Is the Bible the infallible word of God? Here is the problem. The Bible is a great work of religious tradition, moral values, symbolic myth, and even poetry. It is the basis for one of the major religions on earth. However, there is a great deal of proof (to a rational viewer) that it can no longer be considered to be the literal truth (and thus not the literally true words of God). Even the Catholic Church has begun to acknowledge this/

    Interestingly, the JWs have also - for example: They transcribed the biblical "days of creation" into first 7,000 years (with absolutely NO biblical reference proofs), later (confronted by scientific knowledge that 7,000 years is a hopelessly short interval for a creation epoch) - they say that are unknown but very long millenia in length. We just had a thread here that shows they have gone to extreme lengths to distort the story of Saul, the witch of Endor, and the spirit of Samuel - thus again saying (in effect) that what is written in the Bible cannot be interpreted as literal word-for-word truth.

    Everybody today takes what they want from the Bible, ignores embarrasing or unscientific issues, and essentially makes up their own religious mind in the long run.

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