Who really is Michael the Archangel?

by theMadJW 309 Replies latest jw friends

  • TD


    You asked for people's thoughts. I gave you mine

    You accused me of "escapism" for simply telling you what language experts have to say.

    So I gave you scans of textbooks proving that I'm not making this stuff up.

    Greek has words to express your understanding of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 but those words don't appear there

    Here's another example just for fun:

    "MadJW descended the mountain with the sound of a howling wind, with the sound of driving rain and with the sound of a thunder clap."

    In this usage, "With" functions as a synonym for "Amid."

    "MadJW descended the mountain amid the sound of a howling wind, amid the sound of driving rain and amid the sound of a thunder clap."

    And here's yet another scan to prove again that I'm not making this up:

    Samuel Green Handbook To The Grammar Of The Greek Testament together with A Complete Vocabulary And An Examination Of The Chief New Testament Synonyms, p. 200

    You asked what planet I'm from. I don't know why you would ask this question of someone who is simply pointing out what language experts have to say on the subject. Do you think all these textbooks should be thrown away?

    To answer your question, I would say I'm from a planet where we were forced to study grammar in school. Maybe from your perspective that does seem like another planet, because it certainly seems to be a bygone era today.

  • BurnTheShips

    You say this because you do not understand that Jesus had two natures--human, and divine.


  • booby

    themadjw = do you think that Jesus is divine?

  • theMadJW

    BTS says:"Angel means messenger, but angels are a type of creature."

    Mad: And where did you see THAT in the Bible?

    "Humans are not angels, even when they act as messengers. When a human acts as a messenger for God, he is called a "prophet."

    Mad: True...but ALSO as "angel"- see Revelation Ch 2.

    Excerts from you quote of Heb 1-

    "God, has set you above your companions"- Did One of Three Gods set One of another Gods above the other two Gods? This shows as all the OTHER scriptures do that the ONLY true God Jesus served exalted him, and rewarded him. No returning to Godhood.

    "To which of the angels did God EVER say..." - Was this being said to belittle angels? To show that Two Supreme Beings were now calling a Thrid one "Son"? ONLY in CHURCHianity! It was an emphasis on the unique honor and reward being given to the Ultimate Messenger of God, now given the name "Jesus".

    There's MORE -

    Heb 1:1 - God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and
    in divers manners,
    2 - hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed

    > NOTICE: APPOINTED. AND the distinction.

    heir of all things, through


    whom also he made the worlds;
    3 - who being the effulgence
    [def= radiant splendor : brilliance] of his
    glory, and the very image of his substance, and
    upholding all things by the word of his power,

    > NOTICE: It's by God's Power! And he is the IMAGE of God, not one of three 'Almighties'

    when he had made purification of sins, sat
    down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    4 - having become by so much better than the

    > NOTICE: Having BECOME so much better! At the RIGHT HAND of God- not ONE of the Gods

    angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent
    name than they.

    >Notice: This wasn't always his name!

  • theMadJW

    TD, what all translations say is OBVIOUS, you try to spin it.

    Booby- that depends on what you MEAN by "divine"! (People have manufactured many definitions)

  • booby

    hey Mad, do you think Jesus is divine?

  • theMadJW
  • BurnTheShips



  • Chalam

    tec DD - all I'm saying is that Jesus sharing the titles as Yahweh doesn't mean that he IS Yahweh. Just that he inherited them as a son.

    Jesus sharing title with the Father means Jesus is God, just as the Father is God.

    My own favourite titled which they share is thus

    Revelation 22:12-13 (New International Version)

    12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    Here is the titled shared elsewhere.

    Isaiah 44:6 (New International Version)

    6 "This is what the LORD says—
    Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
    I am the first and I am the last;
    apart from me there is no God.

    Revelation 1:17-18 (New International Version)

    17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

    Revelation 2:8 (New International Version)

    To the Church in Smyrna
    8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
    These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

    Revelation 1:8 (New International Version)

    8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

    Revelation 21:6-7 (New International Version)

    6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

    Blessings, Stephen
  • TD

    C'mon Mad....

    Do you have anything to bring to the table besides your incredulity?

    Do you have even one Greek scholar that agrees with you?"

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