Late breaking and local - San Antonio, TX - older man fondles pre-teen at Kingdom Hall on meeting night

by Jim_TX 44 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • undercover
    NOW that demons can get into the Kingdom Hall??? What the hell? Since when???

    Since smurf dolls were invented...duh

    if "brother steve" is really in fact an active JW.

    Yea. I said it on the other thread...I wonder if someone is just trying to post as a JW to show how ridiculous JWs can think... it's too over the top, but then again, some dubs are that thick...

  • JWoods

    You know, it would be very useful if some moderator could combine the three (or maybe more) threads that this thing has caused.

    I for one would like to know just exactly how this guy came to be caught by the police. I somehow don't think he just confessed to them -

  • StAnn

    JWoods, I've read all four of the threads (think that's all there are) and they are basically the same. No more info than what is presented here. I too am curious about the details and how the WTS and the local cong. handled this.

    St. Ann

  • JWoods

    OK, thanks St Anne - I have just been keeping up with whatever one is the last on current topics.

    I would also be interested in knowing how this became such a sensation in the San Antonio local media.

  • Jim_TX

    I too am curious about the details and how the WTS and the local cong. handled this.

    I also am mulling this over, and then another poster puts this up. Not sure who he (or she) is, but they must be local to know some details beyond what was put into the articles.

    ------------------------ Quote ---------------------------
    I feel sorry for this young girl and her family. I cannot even begin to imagine what they are going through. My prayers are with them. James 4:17 (New World Translation used by Jehovah’s Witnesses) says, “Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.”

    With that in mind, I too believe several questions need to be addressed and it is my hope that it is done by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the law enforcement community, and the media. It is my understanding that this man was disfellowshipped from the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in January 2010.

    Was it because molested this child on January 10th 2010? If so, that means:

    1. The individual was a BAPTIZED Jehovah’s Witnesses and was considered a brother or sister, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, at the time of the offense or sin was being committed.

    2. In order to be disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses, a judicial committee needs to be formed by at least three congregation elders who decide based on the evidence, whether or not the individual should be disfellowshipped. More over, what determines whether or not a sinner is disfellowshipped is the degree of repentance they display at the judicial committee. So, what is considered evidence? The individual would either need to confess to his gross sin or there would need to be at least two witnesses that saw the sin committed. (See Matthew 18:15-17) So we need to ask, did this man confess? According to this article “the unidentified girl then met him outside the restroom area”. There is no mention of witnesses. Since, the man confessed to the police he most likely confessed to the elders in a judicial committee.

    Also, since the individual was disfellowshipped that means that the judicial committee did not see a degree of repentance that would allow him to remain as a member of the congregation. Because of that, the judicial committee announces to that congregation, which was at 319 Price, that this man has been disfellowshipped.

    This means that no further contact is made with this person and Jehovah’s Witnesses. In this case, that would prevent that other children be molested in the congregation by this man.

    Now, my question is what did the elders of that congregation do to alert the public of this sex offender? They are the first to know of this issue.

    Are they only here to alert the world of the times of the end, but not our neighbors as to the threat of a sex offender?

    Did the elders contact the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as per the instruction letters the elders have received from the Watchtower?

    What did the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society instruct the elders to do? Were the elders instructed to contact the police?

    It makes me wonder since this sex offender was just arrested on July 13th 2010, a little over 6 months after the crime took place.

    As I understand it, that Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses was being sold and the closing took place about June 5th of 2010. I hope that this is not the reason why they delayed taking this issue to the police. I even wonder if on the sale they disclosed to the new owners, that this crime took place in their new property, which is now for a different religion. I believe this issue needs to be looked into further. Not only what was done and what action is going to be taken against this individual by the law, but also, how did the congregation elders and the Watchtower handled this and why. Why did it take six months for an arrest to take place?
    I also wonder if this is the first child he has molested. The congregation body of elders as well as the Watchtower Society should be aware of that. I would think others in that congregation or neighboring congregations would know something. If so, they should come forth. I hope to see further investigation into this sad issue so that we may have answers to these and many other questions.

    --------------------------------- End Quote -------------------------------

    If you read through this, you will pick up on one or two points. According to this poster...
    1) It appears that this Kingdom Hall has been sold since the January incident (June 5th), and prior to this man being arrested (July 13th).
    2) The man, Ramon Sanchez, was disfellowshipped in January. Apparently it was sometime after the incident (because if he was DFed, no one - not even a 12-yr old - would be talking to him).

    What I get out of this, and I may be waaaay off, but here goes...
    1) Ramon Sanchez basically fondles this 12-year old girl. She evidently then reports him to her parents who raise a stink, and rightly so.
    2) The local 'elders' do as instructed, and contact Brooklyn, who instruct the locals to DF Ramon. Somehow, they also determine that the parents aren't going to be happy with just this action and are probably going to wind up in court, so they (Brooklyn legal) also instruct the local 'elders' to shut down the operation and disband that location. What this does is send the cockroaches ('elders') scattering to the dark corners of the room, and also pulls the plug on Brooklyn's involvement if a lawsuit is filed(?).
    This may be why it took so long for them to get it reported to the authorities, as they were busy selling the property. They were probably doing their best to keep the parents from reporting the incident to the authorities before they were ready to do so, and probably held many back room meetings to stall them.

    So. If and when the parents get a lawyer and sue, there is no Kingdom Hall on 319 Price Street locally that can be named in the lawsuit. The only ones that they can name will be the local 'elders' and this man Ramon Sanchez, as Brooklyn has already severed ties with the locals and will let them fend for themselves.

    That's my take on what I read above, if it is anywhere near the truth. Of course, I am probably way off on this. I'm not a lawyer and don't know how those things work, but it is awfully suspicious that they took 6 months to report the crime.


    Jim TX

  • undercover

    I can see part of your scenerio. The guy is caught and it's kept under wraps except for the guy being DFd.

    But the sale of the building could be coincidence... they were moving to a newer/bigger building. The WTS is in real estate holdings now. It's how they've tried to replace lost revenue from the publishing corporation.

    I hope more substantiated info comes out about this. This could get ugly for the WTS...

  • JWoods

    It sounds like a reasonable theory, Jim.

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    When will these sick fuks learn to quit hiding this shit? It is a crime in itself if the elders were involved in encouraging a delay in reporting this. Still the parents could have reported it. In Dubland, the only way a parent wouldn't do what is natural is under the influence of the WTS.

    Think About It

  • flipper

    JIM_TX- Interesting thread. It's a crime that the elders don't report these offenses to the police IMMEDIATELY after it's reported , instead being told to report to WT legal first. We see where THEIR priorities are. I would think it's sfe to assume with the 6 month lag period between this child molesters DFing and when it's finally coming out in the news- that the local elders DID NOT report this to authorities. Is Texas a mandatory child abuse reporting state like California ? If so- those elders could definitely be in hot legal water if the parents of the girl want to pursue a lawsuit against the elders. Let us know how this plays out , O.K. ? Far too many of these crimes are happening to innocent children

  • StAnn

    Yes, my question would be, if there is mandatory reporting in TX and, if so, isn't there a time frame in which one must report? Did the elders comply with that time frame?

    Let's see if the elders acted upright and morally in this case. If they didn't, I'd go with Jim's scenario as a distinct possibility.

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