Thought Control (A simple test for JW's)

by TD 143 Replies latest jw friends

  • reslight2
    reslight2 This was stated because of the second coming of Christ as taught by Christendom. Seventh-day Adventists were expecting Jesus coming to be literal, personal and visible in 1881.

    The above appears to be confusing the Seventh-Day Adventists with some of the factions of Second Adventists. Russell did accept the date 1881 (seven year period after 1874), but he assigned no return of Christ at all to that date; Russell believed Christ had already returned in 1874, thus he was not looking for any other date for that return. I will say also, that, to my understanding, not all Second Adventists agree about 1881. Nevertheless, to my knowledge, the Seventh-Day Adventists have never said anything at all about expecting anything for the years 1874, 1878, 1881, nor 1914. The Seventh-Day Adventists represent a controlled organization; the Second Adventists do not represent a controlled organization.

  • cyberjesus

    TD Great thread! * marked to read right now :-)

  • diamondiiz

    How can wts followers who appear on this board imagine the wts doesn't decieve it's members or how there is no contradictory statements in the wts publications is beyond me. Today, I would guess that 99% of witnesses don't know that Russell taught not thought that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 and that 1914 was to be the end not the beginning of the last days. When wts quotes old publications they make it appear so that today's members assume that Christ's return was preached for some 40 years prior to 1914 as various dates taught by Russell were amalgamated into 1914 and today's followers only know of a single date - 1914. It may be hard to find outright lies by wts as they are careful to quote old publications with intent to deceive while at the same time they can blame the reader for assuming what was being stated by the society. We've seen this sort or deception on a number of occasions and here are couple quotes in regard to 1914 published by Russell.

    From WT July 15, 1894

    Seventeen years ago people said, concerning
    the time features presented in MILLENNIAL
    DAWN, They seem reasonable in many respects,
    but surely no such radical changes could occur
    between now and the close of 1914: if you
    had proved that they would come about in a
    century or two, it would seem much more
    What changes have since occurred, and what
    velocity is gained daily!
    "The old is quickly passing, and the new is coming in."
    Now, in view of recent labor troubles and
    threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to
    know if there may not be a mistake in the
    1914 date. They say that they do not see how
    present conditions can hold out so long under
    the strain.
    We see no reason for changing the figures--
    nor could we change them if we would. They
    are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But
    bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the
    date for the beginning, but for the end of the
    time of trouble.
    We see no reason for changing
    from our opinion expressed in the View
    presented in the WATCH TOWER of Jan. 15, '92.
    We advise that it be read again.

    Here is wt jan 15 1892 quote of interest,

    The Scriptures give unmistakable testimony
    to those who have full faith in its records, that
    there is a great time of trouble ahead of the
    present comparative calm in the world--a trouble
    which will embroil all nations, overthrow
    all existing institutions, civil, social and religious,
    bring about a universal reign of anarchy
    and terror, and prostrate humanity in the very
    dust of despair, thus to make them ready to appreciate
    the power that will bring order out of
    that confusion and institute the new rule of
    righteousness. All this, the Scriptures show us,
    is to come to pass before the year 1915
    MILLENNIAL DAWN, Vol. II., Chapter IV.)--that
    is, within the next twenty three years. And in
    view of these calamities the Lord's consecrated
    ones are told not to be alarmed, knowing what
    the grand outcome is to be.

    WT April 15, 1989

    For some 40 years the Bible Students boldly proclaimed that the year 1914 would mark the end of the Gentile Times. As expected, that year brought world-shaking events, not the least of these being the first world war

    WT Nov 1, 1988

    From their study of the Bible, they learned that the year 1914 would be a turning point in human history,and they gave warning of this for 40 years. True to Bible prophecy, 1914 was the beginning of a time marked by famines, pestilences, and earthquakes, as well as war.

    WT July 1, 1987

    For about 40 years preceding 1914, a small group of Christians had been warning that that year would mark the end of the Gentile Times as prophesied by Jesus.

    WT Sep 1, 1985

    From 1876 onward, Jehovah’s people served notice upon the world, and particularly upon Christendom, that the Gentile Times would end in the fall of 1914. (Luke 21:24, King James Version) The clergy could not ignore this preliminary work of almost 40 years—a work corresponding to that of John the Baptizer. Those clergymen waited eagerly to pounce upon this journal’s editor should 1914 pass without any outstanding events to correspond with those about which he warned. But, oh, how they were silenced when on July 28, 1914, peace was shattered by the outbreak of World War I!

  • reslight2

    We see no reason for changing the figures--
    nor could we change them if we would. They
    are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But
    bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the
    date for the beginning, but for the end of the
    time of trouble.
    We see no reason for changing
    from our opinion expressed in the View
    presented in the WATCH TOWER of Jan. 15, '92.
    We advise that it be read again. -- WT July 15, 1894

    This was written in 1892 (about 12 years before 1904) because there were those Bible Students who disagreed with Russell concerning the "time of trouble" as ending in 1914. In other words, there were those Bible Students who were claiming that the "time of trouble" was to begin, not end, in 1914. In 1894, Russell saw no reason to change his view on this, but in 1904 (about ten years before 1914), he did change his view and accepted what some of his associates had claimed, that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914. The reason for this had to do with several scriptural lines of reasoning, the main being that the prophecies indicate that when the times of the gentiles end is when Jesus was begin exerting his power amongst the nations, and the nations would be come angry, bringing the "time of trouble." Please note that Russell gave his views, not as though heading a controlling organization as the JWs, for as can be seen from the pages of the Watch Tower in those days, there were many different views, and Russell, although not agreeing with those views, admitted the possibility that he could be wrong.

    I have been collecting a lot information on Russell and 1914 that might be helpful to sort out some of this:

  • Mad Dawg
    Mad Dawg

    Reslight, just a matter of curiosity so I can put your posts in context: Am I correct to say that you have a high level of respect for Charles Russel, but reject the JW's as legitamate heirs of his legacy?


    "Hypothetical question, Alice

    Let's say, twenty years from now (Don't laugh!) you're reading The Watchtower. You come across an article that says something like this:

    "Consider how Jehovah's organization progressed in the 20th century. In the 1920's it was discerned that the kingdom is a heavenly government with Jesus as king. In the 1930's a great crowd of other sheep were identified. In the 1940's a clearer understanding of Bible chronology was attained. In the 1950's it was realized that in the final part of the fulfillment of Matthew 24:34, the 'generation' are those anointed whose lives overlap during the time of the end. In the 1960's proper respect for blood was emphasized....."

    You think to yourself, "Wait a minute....That didn't happen in the 50's, it happend around 2010 or so.....I remember that assembly."

    --Is the issue here a problem with the "New light" or is it a problem with mistakenly reporting when that "New light" was attained?"

    Fundamental Bible teachings always remain the same. Subtle changes are often blown out of proportion by opponents of the Bible. The main books that led the early Bible students to an understanding of where we are in the stream of time pertaining to 1914 was Daniel and Revelation. These books use symbolic language and illustrations.

    The grand theme of the Bible doesn't revolve around the 1914 prophecy but considering all things it should be strikingly obvious where we are in the steam of time. Things have become clearer as time moves along. It's actually the world that constantly changes.

    g02 5/22 p. 32 “The Scene of This World Is Changing”

    The Bible contains this astute observation about human affairs: “The scene of this world is changing.” (1 Corinthians 7:31) The apostle Paul, who wrote those words, was comparing world events to the changing scenes on the stage of a theater. Throughout history, world leaders and trendsetters have come and gone on the world stage, the new replacing the old, again and again. But in our day—especially since the pivotal year 1914—the process seems to have accelerated.

    I posted this sometime back and people knew little about it.


    The apostle John writes that Jesus presented Revelation “in signs,” or symbols. Are there any Catholic or Protestant (two major denominations in Christendom) literary works that claim to have unlocked the meaning.

    I assume the Catholic interpretation would traditionally come from Divine assistance by which the pope when acting as the supreme teacher of the Church, is preserved from all error as to faith or morals and the Vatican Council.



    If your not intelligent enough to answer a simple question..

    Just say so..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW


    "The life story of a Japanese woman named Matsue Ishii appeared in the The Watchtower of May 1, 1988. She recalls how in 1928, she first came into contact with the Bible Students:

    "Do you believe in the second advent of the Lord?" I asked the young man who came to the door. "Christ's second advent was realized in 1914," he answered. In astonishment, I told him that was impossible. "You should read this book," he said handing me The Harp of God." (p.22)

    No edition of The Harp of God teaches that Christ's second advent was realized in 1914 and this was years before the 1874 date would be discarded."

    I don't see that it can be said that a clerical error was even made. This is clear, concise and to the point:

    EBook of The Harp of God, by J. F. Rutherford

    In the year 606 B.C. Zedekiah was overthrown. He was taken a prisoner, carried away to Babylon, and Nebuchadnezzar established in the earth the first universal empire and the gentile times dated from that time forward. The length of the gentile times is definitely fixed in the Scriptures as a period of seven symbolic times of 360 years each, or a total of 2,520 years. This period beginning with the year 606 B.C. necessarily must end in 1914 A.D. God had declared that he would overturn the right of the descendants of Abraham to rule, thereby permitting the gentiles to have an uninterrupted sway until he should come whose right it is. The one whose right it is is the great Messiah, Christ Jesus the Lord. It would be reasonable to expect him to be present some time before he would take unto himself his great power to reign. His presence beginning in 1874, he has carried on his harvest work from 1878 forward, but has not interrupted the gentile dominion until that dominion should end. The end of the gentile rule, therefore, would mark necessarily the end of the present order; therefore, the end of the world. We should expect, then, to find 1914 as the beginning of the end of the old world or order of government. And that this would take place during the presence of the Lord he definitely stated.

  • sooner7nc

    "I clearly stated that, everything is clearly explained when conclusions are reached in information published by Jehovah's Witnesses. It takes the outworking of events for some matters to be firmly established. "

    Actually Alice Rachel, I agree with you on this point. Those are absolutely without a doubt the best explained, most clearly discernable, easiest to understand bullshit lies that I have ever read. Thank You child from the bottom of my heart for helping me to realize this.



    Do you have the cake recipe they used to make your head..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

Share this