by wiser 44 Replies latest jw friends
| Post 159 of 163 Since 5/18/2010 | Hi Wiser 2 Thessalonians 3:14 This is from the NIV what is Paul saying here? Hi sharah Jesus told his apostles to wipe their feet from the dust of those that didn't believe. The apostles told us the following about unbelievers. 2 Corinthians 6:14 |
Interesting debator you use these two scriptures to justify not associating with unbelievers, yet you frequently engage in debate/ associate with us on this board. Rather hypocritical of you !!!
If you don't want the study any longer, just tell them up front. Don't continue to study if you don't want to.
Debator -
May I ask how a person who is disfellowshipped from JW's returns if he repents? Is it all at once, and he/she is welcomed with unreserved forgiveness and love - such as the lost son parable?
Are there limitations on what they are allowed to do, or to participate, and suspicions about them?
Tammy
Debator, not trying to throw trick/loaded questions at you. But here's the reality for one to be saved, one must become a JW.
One must believe "The Message" about Jehovah and Christ as interpreted by the WTBS. A person may believe in Jesus and Jehovah and accept the Bible as his Word but if one doesn't become a JW then you will die. The whole purpose for the bible study program is to make JW's, not to strenghten faith in God and his Son or offer comfort. Or for true debate. It's the JW way or no way. At least you are honest, in recognizing this even if there is no scriptural basis for believing the JW's to be the one true religion.
Edited to add - I noticed your def from Wiki on loaded questions, LOL. Find fault with the questions instead of answering them.
presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted by all the people involved (a complex question) and
contains controversial assertions and/or loaded language.
Debator,
I hope you are turning in the hours you are spending here trying to support the unsupportable and make sense of the Watchtower nonsense for the rest of us infidels.
Keep it up and in a couple of weeks you will qualify as a special pioneer. Can we send a letter to your congregation and recommend you for the next PO or MS position?
I wonder if the home "Bible" study would include books that question the belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. I would think that a thorough Bible study would include what the damned atheists say about it, so you could believe what you believe because it's worth believing and not just because no one told you the other side of the story or conveniently dismissed it as wrong without giving you proof it is wrong.
I will not hold it against the Watchtower that it only shows its side of the story. I DO hold it against them, and most Christians, for that matter, that they don't want you to read anything that questions or casts doubts on what they say. And they want you to accept it on "faith", they say. Wasn't it Augustine who said "I believe because it's absurd"?
I would like you to shell out a few bucks buying a few books. I felt my buying them were worth every penny. I would like you to buy "Who wrote the Bible", by Richard Elliott Friedman, "Misquoting Jesus", "Jesus Interrupted", "The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture" and "Lost Scriptures: Book that Didn't Make it Into The New Testament" by Bart Ehrman, and "The Canon of the New Testament", by Bruce Metzger. Also, would you please also read "The Age of Reason", by Thomas Paine. In my humble opinion, books such as these should be part of every serious and honest Bible study.
It is well known that in JW lingo "Bible study" actually means "WT doctrine study". I would believe that honesty should begin by using true language and call things by their true name. I wonder why it should not sound right to say "Hey, come here and study what we hold as true". That would at least be honest.
I refused a "Bible study", you know? I said I would study on my own because I learn better that way, which is the truth. I also said I wouldn't "study" with an elder who was like fifteen years my junior. I wonder if your indoctrinator would be happy to hear you say such a thing. I know the person I met wouldn't be happy to hear me say something like "If I asked the Catholic Church what is wrong with it, they would say that nothing at all is wrong; therefore, I want to ask the apostates of your faith what the matter is with you witnesses, and see what they say".
To the Witness you are his/her "Bible Study...as in [My "Bible Study is progressing nicely"] Although they are likely very sincere and have pure motives, to the Witness, having you as a Bible study does give them a sense of accomplishment, not to mention some bragging rights in a way. Studying with you makes all the time they spent in the door to door activity worthwhile. It is also a means to count time without having to go from door to door work if they choose not to. Out of duty they are placed in the role of having to have all the answers to your questions. They are formally taught how to overcome your objections rather than understand why you might have them, see any validity in them or admit they may have them as well.
I'm curious if you have told them you visit this site. If you do tell them, they will likely say that visiting this site is at the root of your problems and that Satan is trying to blind your eyes or turn you away from God so that you will be destroyed along with his wicked system of things at Armegeddon.
I think asking them the hard hitting questions about Shunning and Blood Transfusions mentioned before, is important not because it will put them on the spot, but you really need to know the reality of their practices in these matters. Ask them if they think anyone who isn't one of JW's will survive Armegeddon. If they say yes....then ask why it's so important that you become one ? If they say no, ask them why at Armegeddon, a little child, who's parent isn't a Witness and an Axe Murderer, would both get the same punishment....death at the hands of a loving God.
If you are truly fed up with studying, the kind thing to do is to let them know so as not to waste their time. If you do decide to proceed, always have a plan B to fall back on. So many of us who were raised as Witnesses and leave have to start over from scratch.
Hi tec
That is a good question, They have to stop their actions that they needed to repent of, they usually have a study as well and they sit at the back avoiding contact with others until such time as they are reinstated which can be as little as a few months if their repentence is obvious. The elders have to make sure the flock is kept clean and not influenced by ones that only say they repent but do not add action to words.
I know a few that have returned sincerely and been reinstated and they themselves avoid contact knowing it is about clarifying to the whole congregation their real and honest repentence in a way that imperfect people cannot know immediately as God can because we cannot read hearts as God does, so for us a period of time to show repentence works. Jesus gave a certain autonomy to the shepherds on earth on how they set out his commands in practical ways and showed his father would respect that..
Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
Even grave wrongdoings do not lead to df-ing if repentence is sincere and obvious.
I have no problem with how the witnesses do this since it follow Pauls words as closly as we can when dealing with grave actions from brothers that have turned to immorality, idolatry, divisiveness etc.
Here's a great example of a loaded_question
Is the holy spirit a person?
Of course, they have answered the second question with the first!
With correct Greek comes the correct question "Who is the Holy Spirit?"
Blessings,
Stephen
HI sharah
If one has to be saved do they need to be a Christian?
Acts 26:28-29 (New International Version)
28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?"
29 Paul replied, "Short time or long—I pray God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains."
Paul said yes. Having Confidence that you are God's people and flock is not a sin.
It is unfortunate that time has blurred christianity so it covers a widely massive collection of contradictory religions that are at odds with each other and do not even worship the same God anymore. But this is a predicted thing. So we have to as witnesses clarify this more than just saying "christian" which indeed we are but we have to separate ourselves for false weeds among christianity that have set up false gods and teachings.
The bible shows that false teachers, savage wolves will come among God's people with false Gospels/teachings and we must recognise this.
Acts 20:29-31 (New International Version)
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard!
.Galatians 1:8-9 (New International Version)
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
At this time I truly believe Jehovah's witnesses are God's people, I personally tested them against the rest of the Christian religions and their teachings and found Jehovah's witnesses to be the most Biblically true religion by about a mile and a half. but it is for each person to decide for themselves.
All roads do not lead to God! "Narrow" is the path leading to Jesus our way to reconciliation with Jehovah his father. Jesus isn't a figurehead sat upon a load of different teachings and waring people, but he has one truth, one message and he got it from his father. If you think you have found the people in this time that have seen through the Savage wolves/weeds and and recognisably teach the real message from the Bible then it is no sin to commit to them as God's flock and people. To hold something back and say "maybe they are" is not giving a full commitment to the flock.
