mentions of going to heaven in the Bible?

by AwSnap 67 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Chalam

    Understood. There are one or two tricky verses for sure. Don't fall down a hole over them!

    You can build a cult over one or two of them, see the Mormons and this one for example 1 Corinthians 15:29



  • AGuest

    Dearest AwSnap... may you have peace! I would like to address a couple/few verses that seem to have given you some... ummmm... conundrum, if I may. Thank you! Before I do, I have to say to you (because my Lord directs me to), that the reason most folks cannot explain the scriptures and other writings pertaining to Christ is because (1) they don't really know him (my apologies to who that might offend, but it is the truth; however, it can CHANGE), and (2) they lean upon their own understanding rather than have him, Christ - the Holy Spirit - "open" their meanings to them. He has permitted me to respond to a few of those you've raised, however, and I will start with your confusion as to John 13:3:

    No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

    There is a presumption by many that "heaven" is one place. It is not, per se. "Heaven" (or, in some cases, "the Heavens")... is the spirit realm and in that realm there are many levels based on their PROXIMITY TO THE MOST HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL. (Please note, I am not speaking about the Father's "house" which my Lord referenced as having "many abodes" - I will explain that while explaining this).

    When my Lord spoke these words, he was speaking about a particular LEVEL... proximity... the Most Holy.

    The SPIRIT realm is structured much like the Temple at Jerusalem. And so is New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ... the "house" to which my Lord referred. Here is the structure of both:

    Furthest out... the Temple Wall, with its Door and Gates(the "entry" and "Way" into "Heaven") -

    The Spirit Realm- This is "Jerusalem Above" and the wall is of significance because of what is OUTSIDE of it: the physical realm. In order to enter into the Most Holy (discussed below), one has to go through the Door to Heaven, Christ... who is the "narrow gate."

    New Jerusalem- In relation to New Jerusalem, there are angels posted at such gates. The gates are named after each of 12 apostles. The purpose of this is because, with the exception of those who enter through CHRIST (i.e., the 144,000 and great crowd)... all others who "enter" (i.e., the "sheep" who are separated from the goats and then granted entry)... must do so through one of the "gates... meaning, one of the 12 tribes of Israel. They must "go through" the particular gate/apostle assigned to them... either as one of Abraham's direct" seeds... or as one who "goes with" such one. They "go through" such tribe... by means of which tribe the one who pleads for them IN that separation hails from/is associated with.

    Next In, the Courtyard of the Gentiles (the 7th "Heaven") -

    The Spirit Realm - Paul recounted the event of a man who went to the "THIRD heaven." This is not that place but I must refer to that event in order to explain. In the SPIRIT realm... as in the Temple... there are "areas" where certain people are only allowed to go. This courtyard depicts the furthest AWAY from God, yet INSIDE the spirit realm.

    New Jerusalem- In relation to New Jerusalem, this area is the "camp"... which is inside the City walls but OUTSIDE the Temple. It is the sheep... who are separated from the goats... and granted entry into the City NOT because of their faith in Christ... but because of their 'good' treatment of even "the least[one of" Christ's brothers. They are within the City's "limits" and thus under its protection.

    Next In, the Courtyard of Women (the 6th "Heaven") -

    The Spirit Realm- Again, in the spirit realm, there are "areas." This area is next closest to God, but not MOST close.

    New Jerusalem- In New Jerusalem, this area is women... such as Rahab and Ruth... who were NOT Israel... but who put their faith in the GOD of Israel, and thus, in Christ. They are INSIDE the TEMPLE (albeit, at the outermost area).. whereas, those in the Courtyard of the Gentiles are further out.

    Next In, the Courtyard of Israel (the 4th "Heaven") -

    The Spirit Realm - This area is closer in proximity to God, in that Abraham's seed, Israel, has a special "place" with God; however, there are "areas" that are closer.

    New Jerusalem- In relation to New Jerusalem, this is "all Israel" (excluding those are of the 144,000 "from among the sons of Israel", who are discussed below). Because of their rejection of Christ, these do not get to rule as kings and priests with Christ (which was supposed to happen to the entire nation). So, they are further out than those the kings/priests; however, because of God's promise to Abraham regarding his seed... they ARE included in the "temple." This is because the day WILL come when these WILL say, "Blessed is he... that comes in the name of JAH." They are not permitted to do so, yet, however... because the full number of nations is still being filled.

    Next In, the Courtyard ofPriests (the 3rd "Heaven"... and where John, the "man" Paul spoke of, went)-

    The Spirit Realm - This is the next closest position to God... and is occupied by the 24 elders and the 144,000/great crowd (as co-rulers with Christ). The 24 elders have a slightly different position, which is neither higher nor lower... but is not a kingship/priesthood. It is more like the "special" privileges of priesthood (withOUT kingship) given ONLY to the sons of Aaron.

    New Jerusalem - In relation to New Jerusalem, this is the 24 elders... and the 144,000/great crowd.

    Next In, the Holy(the 2nd "Heaven") -

    The Spirit Realm- This is the closet position to God, His "right hand"... and is occupied by CHRIST, the HOLY One of Israel and HOLY Spirit.

    New Jerusalem- In relation to New Jerusalem, John wrote that he did NOT see a temple in her... because the Lamb and God WERE the temple. Thus, in the "temple" that IS New Jerusalem, which temple does not have a temple IN it... this is Christ... who, along with God... IS the temple in the City. He is the "Tree of LIFE"... which is in the MIDST of the City.

    Finally, the MOST Holy (the 1st "Heaven") -

    The Spirit Realm- This is the Soverign position... the seat... of the MOST Holy One of Israel, Himself... JAH... of Armies.

    New Jerusalem- In relation to New Jerusalem this is the "Most Holy" of the temple, JAH Himself. In the physical temple, NO ONE could enter into this "area" except for the High Priest. Today, Christ is that High Priest and so THROUGH him... who opened the way by means of removing the "curtain" that was his (physical) FLESH... ANY can enter and go before the face of the Most Holy One Himself. The only caveat is that they go THROUGH the Holy/High Priest/Door... that is Christ.

    I hope this helps resolve some of your confusion, dear AS, and, again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,


  • PSacramento

    Shelby is quite correct in regards to the "levels" of heaven.

    It was a common belief of the Jews of Paul's time.

    We also need to remember that with the coming of Jesus and the New Covenant, much of the Old covenant became obsolete, hence Jesus's reply that HE was the Ressurection.

    We know that Paul was looking forward to being with Jesus and that it even made him "wonder" what was best, and he wished that he could depart and BE with his Lord, not Die and WAIT on the ressurection to be with Jesus.

    In Revelation John SAW the souls of those that were slain in heaven ( under the throne).

    The resurrection is the resurrection of the BODIES, that is the significance of the event, its not a "rebirth" or a "recreation" of the soul or spirit.

  • AGuest
    Shelby i admire the love you have for people!

    Thank you, dear Watersprout (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... but I truly cannot take credit. It is NOT my love... but my Lord's, which he is teaching me and manifesting through me. ME? I am NOT so loving, truly - LOLOLOLOL! But his spirit... holy spirit... makes me so.

    If anyone attacks me the way you are attacked on this board i would flip!!!

    Yes, I understand that and I would be lying if I said such feelings don't come up in me. When they DO, however, I am reminded by my Lord that the sheep don't belong to me. They are not mine to take out my frustrations on - they are his... and were I to malign or speak abusively to one of them... I would be doing so to him. Since God shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it, I cannot act badly toward any because I don't know that they won't, at some point, BE shown such mercy and be called as I was.

    Also, my Lord has taught me... what is the point? It is not my concern whether folks listen or not - I am merely working out MY salvation. If some hear and get the message - PRAISE JAH!! If some don't, it is was not between me and them anyway but between HIM and them. And if they become ill-mannered or abusive... so what? Should I really get all head up? I mean, I WAS warned of what some would say, even do... and I have no delusions as to what a "torture tree/pole" really is. I chose to carry mine... and I can't crying when it gets "heavy."

    If ones don't agree with what you say, then why stalk you and post nasty comments???

    Because that is what's IN them... and what I post brings that out, unfortunately. Most of it, though, is the result of anger and frustration, particularly after a nasty stint with religion... and more particularly with the WTBTS. They've got to take that stuff out on someone, don't they? Or do they?

    Why not just ignore you.......

    They can't, dear one. Because they hear the call ("Come!")... and the truth of what I share. Unfortunately, it causes them to "weep and gnash their teeth" just like those in the WTBTS. They don't see this, though, because they are hypocrites (sorry for any one that that offends, but it is the truth)... and hypocrites rarely see themselves in their hypocrisy. These want a releasing from the hold of WTBTS so that they are FREE... to believe... or not believe... what they wish to. And they want the FREEDOM to be able to share what they believe... or don't... with others. Here. They just don't want to grant that SAME FREEDOM... to those they don't understand... or agree with. JUST like the WTBTS. No different, dear one...

    There is still a lot of judgemental dub attitude

    There is. Which is a bit hilarious to ME... because such ones "curse" the WTBTS style, doctrines, and laws... and then turn around and do the exact same thing to others: bite, tear, harass, even condemn. But they don't SEE that they're doing the same thing. That's because they, too, are still BLIND. How, then, can I get angry with them (or stay angry, because there are times when my own anger does rise; however, praise JAH, my Lord ALWAYS gives me HIS joy and HIS peace... HIS comfort... so I come right back down - !). I can't be angry - I can only pity them... as I pity those in the WTBTS...

    and these ones need to get it dealt with and leave honest hearted ones like you alone!

    MY heart is not that... ummmmm... "honest," dear one. I sometimes have to FIGHT what comes up in MY heart - LOLOLOLOL! I am as imperfect and red-blooded as the next one, trust me! Which is why I know I need a saviour (regardless of whether anyone else does/believes they do)... and why I am SO grateful that, in SPITE of my sins and my VERY wicked heart... my Lord came to ME... chose ME... and shares what he does with ME. ME... a foremost sinner. He doesn't keep account of MY injuries, so how can I keep account of anyone else's?

    As for such ones being "dealt with," I hope you don't mean by Simon/Board Moderators. Please... that truly is NOT necessary. The fact that YOU see me... and have said what you have here... is enough for me! Truly! I have you... and SO many others (and you all know who you are, so please forgive me if I do not name you specifically)... so that I am not discouraged. And even if I didn't have you or them... I have my Lord. His "well done, child," is sufficient for me and so I don't worry about what these offer. And... on many occasions... they apologize. If I allow my heart to be hard toward them... where will I get the strength... and LOVE... to forgive them when they do?

    I will tell you: my Lord has taught me that "forgiveness" does not occur AFTER someone has expressed regret or remorse... but BEFORE THEY EVEN TRANSGRESS AGAINST YOU. It is FORE-giveness... something that is given... BEFORE. And so, his word to me was, "And so, now, child, just as I forgave you, before you ever came into the world, YOU must forgive those... even before they sin against you." And I get that... and have absolutely NO problem with it. Makes sense... to ME.

    I love reading your posts, they really help me.

    I am glad, dear one. Having someone say that (and many do!)... is one of joys... and rewards... of being Christ's servant... and yours.

    May the underserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord... master... leader... and teacher... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you... and your entire household... to time indefinite... if you so wish it.

    I am your servant... to time indefinite... and a slave of Christ,




    I am SO grateful that, in SPITE of my sins and my VERY wicked heart... my Lord came to ME... chose ME...

    I too am grateful that the Lord chose you in spite of your sins.

    I am even more grateful that he didn't choose me. You obviously aren't that good at sinning. I can give you some tuition if you like?

    I just hope you don't talk as much as you type.

  • AGuest
    I just hope you don't talk as much as you type.

    Well, not that I wanna "dash" your hope, dear Glad (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... but as my Lord is recorded to have said: "Out the heart's abundance [the] mouth speaks." And, well, my heart is abundantly full, soooo...

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


  • tec

    "Out the heart's abundance [the] mouth speaks." And, well, my heart is abundantly full, soooo.


    You don't mind if I give that to my mother, for the next time someone tells her to stop talking (or to please take a breath while she IS talking)?

    Then again, I might be shooting myself in the foot with that :)


  • AwSnap

    New World Translation:


    8:11) But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens;

    I was just told by my JW that she could see why I would think we'd be going to heaven from this scripture, but that the "kingdom in the heavens" relates to the fact that the earth will be a part of that kingdom.

    Comments? We haven't had the whole discussion yet. This scripture was just mentioned today. Thanks.

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