Think of JW 's as Victims Instead of Enemies ? They get Conditional Love

by flipper 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • flipper

    I have to give credit for this thread where credit is due- to the poster Black Sheep who used this expression in an answer on another thread recently. So- " thank you ! " Black Sheep.

    Perhaps the leaders of the WT society are not victims - they are the ones handing out the mind control to the rank & file - ( I know some differ as to whether the leaders are victims as well ) - however THAT is not the purpose of debate on this thread.

    The rank and file Jehovah's Witness members are trained to have relationships based on " conditions of obedience and membership ". Notice this quote from Steve Hassan's " Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People to Think For Themselves " on the last paragraph of his introduction . He states, " I believe that real love is stronger than conditional love. The love that family members and close friends have for a person is much more powerful than any relationship within a mind control cult. Relationships in mind control groups are usually based on the conditions of obedience and membership. Once the member passes the " honeymoon " phase and these conditions are made evident , friends and family have the potential for increasing a positive influence over time. Time is on their side because mind control is never one hundred percent, because the human spirit wants to be free, and because, ultimately, cults DO NOT deliverwhat they promise. "

    The " conditions of obedience " that witnesses receive conditional " love " on is based on how many times they answer at the WT study, how regular they are out in field service, and how many meetings they attend ! Once a JW STOPS doing those things - the conditional " alleged " " love " dissappears from other active JW's for them. So as faded or inactive relatives WE have an advantage - we can use " unconditional " love ; real human love and caring to eventually appeal to JW relatives.

    And also - As Steve hassan states, " Time is on our side ". Think about it. The WT society will never deliver to the witnesses what they are promising " a paradise earth where members can live forever. " They are NOT CAPABLE of delivering that promise- for it is a lie to keep members locked into the cult and duped. Once our JW family eventually realizes that the WT society NEVER delivered on it's promises - it wears them down emotionally, mentally, and in time it may be easier to accept that they were deceived by a mind control cult. And we can be there to catch them when they fall. Family love is stronger than cult love.

    I recently, just this last week sent old family pictures of my grandparents and great grandparents - about 8 each - to my 3 older JW siblings , my 3 adult children , and 5 nieces and nephews with a short letter saying how I thought they'd enjoy having these old family pictures. So- We will see who responds or not. 3 of my 5 nieces and nephews are out of the witnesses, and 2 of my 3 children are still in. What have some of you folks done to reach out to your JW family ? Have you had any results yet ? And do you feel that looking at these people as " victims " instead of " enemies " is a good thing ? As always- I look forward to your thoughts. Peace out to all, Mr. Flipper

  • OnTheWayOut

    I did write out a very pessimistic answer to your thread, but I deleted it because hope in what you say is something to keep us going.

    Even if I were never to succeed in freeing my loved ones, I would rather hope that real unconditional love might help them out. Because if I spent their entire lives (or mine) giving unconditional love, that would be totally alright with me.

    I definitely want to be there for them if they ever fall.

  • Scarred for life
    Scarred for life

    I like your idea of sending the pictures, flipper. I hope it gets you results.

  • BabaYaga
    And we can be there to catch them when they fall. Family love is stronger than cult love.

    Beautifully said, Dearest Flipper. A very dear friend of mine (a chosen Mother, Sister, Teacher, Friend) once said to me, "Just be there for [them]. Someday [they] will need you."

    I think she's right. I will be here waiting patiently, and when my loved ones need me, I will be as strong and wise and loving as I can be.


  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Well-thought out and beautifully expressed Flipper.




    Good afternoon Flipper!!..

    I don`t give JW`s a Pass,for being Victims..

    You can`t victimize people around you..Then claim to be a victim..

    It`s time to make JW`s responsible for their actions..

    Neither are JW`s the Enemy..

    JW`s are people,who need some Tuff Love..

    A Boot in the Ass is a start..LOL!!..

    If that Boot in the Ass,comes from sending family pictures..Being truthfull when you speak to them..

    Or anything else that will Jar them out of the WBT$ Cult Mentality..

    It`s worth a try..


  • flipper

    OTWO- I agree, uncondotional love is the best thing we can keep giving our JW relatives- because the witness cult won't do that for them. But yeah, I agree it would be good to be there for them if they fall out of graces with the cult.

    SCARRED FOR LIFE- Well, thanks. It's going to be interesting to see which relatives respond to me for sending the pictures- if any respond ! LOL ! I have my bets out on who will and who won't - but I'm not holding my breath. Just putting it out there- and see what happens !

    BABA YAGA- You know - that's all we can do- just be there for the JW relatives if and when they fall. Can't rush it - they have to exit at their own time and place . I wish I could rush it- especially with my 2 daughters 23 and 21 who I miss and love dearly - but I just have to be patient. It's definitely a test on my persistence and patience. But I'm hanging in there with it. I hope things go well for you with your JW relatives my friend.

    OPEN MIND- Thanks buddy. I hope there is some material there which may assist you with your JW relatives still in. Hang in there. Keep on- keeping on.

    OUTLAW- I agree that JW's should be responsible for their actions , however I still think they are victims of " cult mind control". Actually, I DO talk to some of my JW relatives about my doubts regarding the " generation " topic, the child abuse scandals, and the view of higher education. I especially open up to my mom, she will listen to me on some things - she's a cool old gal ( 83 ) who has a more non-cult personality about her - but I still choose my words carefully. My 85 yr.old dad's an elder- can only get so far with him-and his " organization brain " kicks in ! LOL !

    As time has gone by ( over six and a half years ) out of the cult - I've become more and more vocal in a truthful way to them- they definitely know where I stand now on issues. So I thought sending old pictures to the family may help some of these people think about where they came from ! That not ALL these relatives were in the JW's - but still were good, honest people. We'll see what happens ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • ziddina

    I agree with you, Flipper, and I like your idea of sending out photos. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words...

    But part of me agrees with OUTLAW, too. Somewhere in the depths of each JW's mind, they've made a decision to continue believing in the organization, rather than look into its teachings and origins, honestly.

    [and I like the idea of giving my nasty parents a good, swift kick in the kicking donkey]

    Zid littlesatan

  • wobble

    I like what you say about being there for them Mr Flipper, but in my case time is not really on my side, I am 60 years old, my siblings, all dubs, are older, and my old Mum , in before I was born, is 90 !

    However. I have resigned myself to the fact that those older relatives will never wake up, I have great nieces and nephews etc. though who I may be able to help in the future, who knows, regardless, I have never viewed them as enemies, just as my sadly deluded family.


  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    I don't recall saying that so I went Googling for it and somehow found myself at a website selling ..............

    So, I didn't find where I said that, or in what context.

    I would describe my family as willing victims. They have had plenty of people at doors and in their homes explain their mistakes to them, but they prefer to not research/discuss/think about, anything that might possibly contradict their beliefs system.

    When they behave like the enemy, they get treated like the enemy. I don't overlook BS from any cult member any more.



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