LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong

by Terry 127 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  tec

  As for loving your enemies, Arun Gandhi, grandson of Mohandas Gandhi, learned that it was often the case that we let long, critcal moments pass watching "our enemy" suffer need or the want of a kindness until the tipping point arrives and they explode--and then we feel justified to attack him. This is not to say that kindness is merely enlightened self interest but it is in keeping with Jesus' spirit of recognizing another's value, viewing them as your neighbor, rather than as a nobody.

  Sort of like we've allowed the world to get to this point - the point where it has become almost impossible to live by Jesus' turn the other cheek/love enemy teachings?

  And now that we have this mess that we as humankind are responsible for, we question and wonder why we can't live by the teachings of those we claim to follow?

  Yeah... I can get behind that reasoning.

  Tammy
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  awildflower

  What is forgiveness.

  Yes that would make for an interesting discussion.

  And IMO Jesus was talking about having no attachments, not to physical things, not to things that could cause us pain, etc because if you remained attached to those things on any level, which is all in the mind btw, YOU are the one that suffers the physical and mental anguish of it all. He was giving examples of how to let things go, hence IMO what forgiveness really means btw.
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  John Doe

  Instead, Christianity has turned a blind eye and given lip-service to Jesus clear admonition not to resist evil.

  I don't see it as a clear admonition not to resist evil. You're skipping over the necessary part discussing exactly what is meant by "love."
• 

  SixofNine

  This conversation is being held because the meaning of "enemy" has been changed into "victimizer". "Enemy" can be a lot of things, but it is not the word one thinks of after being victimized.

  Otoh here's how it is used: General Patraeus: "You reconcile with your former enemies and not with friends. ..."

  Enemies are people you have ongoing disputes with. It's good to remember that they have their reasons too. A key concept in being a good warrior is understanding your enemy, difficult as that may be.

  and if your "enemy" is your neighbor who hasn't returned the edger he borrowed a month ago, or your ex, or your mom's side of the family, or the town mayor, etc etc., you probably need to just let-it-go, whatever "it" is. Like Jesus "said" ;).

  I seriously doubt Jesus was conflating enemy with "your rapist", or "the person who murdered your wife" etc etc.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  As I have expressed before when discussing forgiveness; if someone wrongs us and we choose not to seek a penalty for them we have forgiven them. If we try to have a penalty imposed then we have not forgiven them. It our action that counts.

  Too often we think that forgiveness is just a feeling inside ourselves. How we cope with our feelings of anger or loss is a personal matter, but unless we take action to exact a penalty, how we feel is irrelevant to the offender. To forgive means no action - to not forgive means action.

  Many will disagree with me because they think that the whole business of forgiveness takes place in their heart. Christians will sometimes say they forgive, in the belief that the offender will answer to Jesus. This is a part of their subjective reality.

  Objective reality is a more demanding master. Generally, wrong doer's only respond to the latter. Forgiving someone may not be in the long term interest of the offender. Paying a penalty or even knowing that a penalty is payable acts as a deterrent.
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  AllTimeJeff

  I agree that this is one teaching attributed to Jesus that is frequently incongruent with common sense.

  The likelihood that a Christians love would stop an angry radical Muslim wanting to kill you, and also cause them to worship Christ (wouldn't that be the point, to save your enemy by directing them toward Christ?) is approx 1 in 1,000,000,000,000 (someone stop me)

  Good points as always Terry.
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  Broken Promises

  Excusing is to not hold accountable. Forgiving is to excuse, overlook, or make allowances for an injury. They do not differ substantially

  I disagree. Forgiving does not make excuses, but it is simply a way of getting over the injury.

  I have been wronged in the past, and I chose to forgive. Why? Because forgiveness is more for the benefit of the forgiver, not the forgiven. Once you have forgiven, you can move on. You are not held back by anger and thoughts of vengeance.

  In other words, you move on.
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  not a captive

  Sometimes it is hard to know in the discussion of "love your enemies" whether posters have in mind the interaction between peoples massed against one another or one person facing another.

  In the back of our mind (at least mine) while I think I am speaking about the range of personal, local effect, the someone I am talking to may be thinking about war or large scale violence. Maybe the discussion can mix the two scenarios but not without an individual posters being clear from the outset whatis the range of theirparticular conversation.

  The opportunity for the use of your conscience is virtually eliminated when you sign up for combat.
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  Quentin

  I will never forgive, love, excuse, turn the other cheek, or any of those things for what my uncle did to my daughter. We live daily with the fall out from what was done. Same goes for his wife and my step-mother who knew what was going on and enabled the evil basturd to have access to my daughter. I do not forgive evil and do not have to.

  Jesus said these things, no amount of defence, or twisted logic makes sense of what he ment. It serves no pupose, for there is no justice attached to the words.
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  freydo

  Another reason to love your enemies is that they'll tell you things your friends won't.