Help Please- Gods prophets in Bible made mistakes like GB? (page 2)

JosephMalik

It does not matter what anyone else has done. It only matters what you have done. And if you are a disciple of Christ then your obligation is to keep his commandments and not the commandments of someone else no matter how connected to God they pretend to be. It is explained like this:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

Because when push comes to shove, they cannot forgive your sins, cure your sickness or raise you from the dead. Only the Son can do that.

Mt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Joseph

cantleave

The biblical examples admitted their mistakes and often had sanctions applied. The GB necer apologise and and apply sanctions to those whio point out the mistakes.

AwSnap

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/179924/1/Imperfection-is-irrelevant-Who-has-the-right-to-rule <----ah yes, *this* thread

Thanks, everyone else, for your helpful thoughts.

wobble

Dear AwSnap, please let us know how it goes, and what the Dubbie argument is.

In common with posters above, I cannot think of one example in the Bible of a false PREDICTION coming from a prophet who was in all other respects " God's Channel ".

The WTB$'s PREDICTIONS have ALL been false so far, end of story.

Please ensure that you are comparing like with like as has been said, a common technique of Dubs is to do just the opposite, easy to spot if you are looking for it.

Love

Wobble

bluecanary

That's the thread. Imperfection is a straw man. This is where you can get on common ground. You can agree that individual witnesses make mistakes just like individuals in the Bible made mistakes--even huge sins. There's no need to even try to argue this point. The question becomes, what is different about the Watchtower as a group that identifies them as being God's channel as opposed to other groups? Why would God have them say one thing, then turn around and say the opposite?

darkl1ght3r

All of the biblical examples that the WT gives to cover their collective ass, are all examples of actions being performed while NOT acting under direction of God's Holy Spirit. As in, it's the narrative itself which is supposed to be without error, not the events described in the narrative. The fact that they point out that people like David and Moses sinned is a red herring. No one is accusing the Governing Body members of never having sinned.

The point is, the scriptures, the pronouncements from God, are supposedly inerrant. The Governing Body wants to have all the pomp and prestige of being "God's Channel" (the very same as each prophet was), without taking on any of the accountability.

It would be like someone delusionally claiming to have a PhD in surgical medicine but not being able to perform even simple routine surgical procedures, and in fact keeps killing patients in the process. The individual then blames all the deaths on the poor health of the patients. "Don't question my knowledge! I'm a PhD!!!"

Olin Moyles Ghost

Hey AwSnap,

Looks like I'm a bit late to this party. Anyway, here are my thoughts for what they're worth.

I would expect the JW to use one or more of the following:

1) The apostles didn't correctly understand "The Kingdom." They thought that Jesus was going to restore Israel to its former glory. (for example, in Acts 1:6 they asked "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time).

2) Similar to #1, some disciples thought that Jesus said that the apostle John would never die. (John 21:20-23; note that verse 23 mentions a rumor that spread among the early Christians that John would never die)

3) The prophet Nathan made a statement that could be construed as false. This is a (IMHO very weak) argument that some JW apologists use. If you read 2 Samuel 7:1-3. King David tells Nathan that he wants to build a temple for God; Nathan says go ahead, for the Lord is with you. Well, in verses 12-13, God tells Nathan to tell David that David's son (not David) will build the temple. So, some JWs argue that Nathan made an incorrect statement to David but still functioned as a true prophet of God.

Well, if you actually read the verses, Nathan didn't say that David would build the temple. He merely said, do what you want; God is with you. It's a major stretch for JWs to compare such vague, general statements with Rutherford's "indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die."

And, for all of these examples, it's important to note that there is not a shred of evidence that these folks required their fellow believers to accept their speculations as doctrine upon pain of shunning and excommunication. Rather, #1 and #2 seem like examples of the kind of rumors that pass through the congregations. To me (and anyone else who looks at it objectively), there's a huge difference between rand-and-file members passing rumors and leadership promulgating false doctrine.

Shouldn't the leadership have some responsibility and accountability? That's what gets to me. The WTS leadership are like politicians--they refuse to accept responsibility or accountability. Everything is someone else's fault. For example, when some rank-and-file members made bad decisions around 1925 or 1975, the Society blamed them for being over-eager. Never mind the fact that the WTS beat the drums and built up the false expectations. But, of course, the WTS laid the blame at the feet of the victims.

Help Please- Gods prophets in Bible made mistakes like GB?

JosephMalik

cantleave

AwSnap

wobble

bluecanary

darkl1ght3r

Olin Moyles Ghost

Michelle365

AwSnap

Michelle365

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