Faders are indeed a very large doormat

by moshe 132 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Gregor

  I may be a little more sympathetic to the JW fader class than Moshe. There just too many individual circumstances to make a blanket judgement,

  However, I completely agree with him that there is a large 'class' of faders who are simply allowing the WT Society to continue to influence their life through peer intimidation. I still have no place to judge them unless I'm in their exact pair of shoes.

  I should still be allowed to express my opinion on the discussion without the labels of intolerance being thrown back at me by the CS class (Custard Spined).
• 

  judge rutherFRAUD

  I understand were Moshe is coming from saying many posters here are like DOORMATS. I have read 1000's of stories here were x jw's or faders let the jw's walk all over them like DOORMATS, and keep going back for more. WHEN I read someone's story on jwd and here week after week, month after month, year after year, on how this person is letting the jw's kick the living crap out of them, every day and drive them insane. it makes me sick, I have to ask when is this person going to grow a backbone, and standup to these wt bullies. because once they are up your case they will not let go. In these type of cases I think you need to stand up to the jw's. I read many cases here were faders work it out on the sly and just slip off out of sight and mind with no big problems. and that's great for them trying to keep family intact with out the heavy hand of the wt coming down on them. Some xjw's here have already lost all the wt could have taken from them the hard way, myself included. I learned to attack the jw's playing their own game, and find it works great for me. Guys like Moshe have nothing to lose anymore from the wts. And show a way to handle them were your controlling the show. Jw's hate being out played at their own game and having to be on the short end of the stick. Moshe and a fare number of other posters here , can light up a whole host of smart ass jw's like a roman candle and make them EXPLODE, in their wts lies in the course of minutes. and at the same time make them admitt they are false teachers . That takes reasearch, knowledge of the wts and balls. Some x jw's just will not let jw's push them around. just ask Moshe?
• 

  shopaholic

  Sometimes I get a little frustrated too when reading some posts but I try to remember that the journey is different for everyone. On an older thread it was mentioned that another term other than fader is needed. How about "leaver"?... for folks that are no longer fading but have left.

  And for all you slow faders....FREEDOM is like...the BEST THING EVER!!! Don't waste your life on a made-up religion.
• 

  moshe

  Erode their authority.-

  Hardly. How long have faders existed in the WT religion? Probably since 1915, plenty more after 1925 and a bunch more after 1975,, 1980's, 1990's, etc . What have they accomplished in almost 100 years? Nothing! The WT authority is getting stronger not weaker! Kids are still being killed by JW parents every year for lack of a blood transfusion, while people worry about their JW mommy and daddy elder giving them the cold shoulder.

  Could a fader write "Crisis of Conscience"- No!- Had Ray Franz taken the route of a true fader, that book would never have been written.

  I personally know full well the wrath that can come from the WT Org, via the KH and the elders. Yes, they can destroy your marriage and try to separate you from your kids and JW family. The KH is able to do this because of the way the ex-member wanabes bend to the authority of the WT. Let's admit what is happenening, fear is what drives every JW who first thinks about leaving! Fear keeps them hostage as a fader, otherwise they would just leave!

  . The publishers for the most part don't have to face up to the moral ugliness inside their KH's, either. Just as long as most of the people who leave the KH leave quietly, fading away into the gloom of the world, they can go on with their JW life. The KH can pretend that those who leave "weren't of our sort" and shift the blame onto the JW who is leaving. Now, when people leave vocally and suddenly that gets the JW's attention and sets the tongues to wagging. A fader can't go up to a JW and tell them how great life is on the outside of the KH can they?- if they do, they will have to explain, why? oops- truth or lie time! - which might bring the elders down on them. Elders can say anything the want about former members and if the faders don't stand up and say, "you're wrong!", then they are hardly eroding the authority of the elders and the fake F&DS class, aka, the governing body. The best assault for a fader is an steady stream of questions and comments at the KH meetings that exposes the lies and cult-like control of the WT org. The fader keeps it up until the elders can't take it any longer. They will have to address the questions or kick you out. Then the next fader does the same. On and on, like Chinese water torture, until the KH snaps. Fading away is not the way an army wins battles, it is the way you give up ground and admit defeat.
• 

  blondie

  Actually, shopaholic, I wish those with comments about "faders" would give a short, compact definition of what "they" think the term "fader" means.

  I haven't been to a meeting or out in the D2D for 10 years. I have no contact with my jw family by my decision at least a year before I stopped attending. I understood finally the abusive nature of my relationship with them. Not everybody has the same relationship with their family. Some want to preserve what they can and still keep their personal choices in tact.

  Through what I post here and my "comments" I feel I have done something to educate people about the WTS. But I am not df'd or have I da'd. I will not play their games. I once posted on here when I first came, that I felt "no pearls before swine." I don't force my ideas on anyone or use them as weapons. I gradually came to my realization about the WTS and if people had made it confrontational it would have taken longer. The actions of jws and the WTS educated me; their actions were louder than any words.

  So if not being df'd or having da'd myself makes me a coward, then few have really read my words here on JWN with understanding.

  Love, Blondie
• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  Moshe. Regarding your original post.

  You are a provocateur who makes wild claims that you cannot substantiated. In my case, when I left I had book about the JW's published. I sent it to every JW I knew. I am now shunned by 43 of my 46 relatives.

  I also went to the newspapers and had a photo of me holding up the book and an article printed. I spent many years promoting the book which resulted in many bible studies being stopped. Announcements were made from kingdom hall platforms advising members not to read it, resulting in increased sales. Libraries requested copies due to demand.

  Many here have paid a high price to stand up and be counted. Get your facts right or just fade away yourself.

  We don't need your self righteous crap!
• 

  moshe

  off topic- Blondie, I sent the WT a letter of anullment back in 1988. I explained that they had obtained my membership by means of fraud ( they had lied about their past, covered up their false prophecies and misapplied scriptures to give the WT org undeserved authority). As such, my membership contract for them was null and void, due to fraud on their part. In retrospect, I should have sent that letter to the WT legal Dept, via my own attorney. I could have probably prevented the KH from taking sides with my wife and helping her destroy our marriage. I could have prevented them from calling me an apostate, due to my membership being annulled,ie, I was never a legal JW. I do appreciate all you have done over the years and I used on many occasions your WT study comments when talking to JW's. Thanks again.
• 

  nugget

  I don't think it is helpful to suggest that because someone chooses an indirect exiting strategy to someone else then they have less moral fibre then anyone else. People choose fading not just to escape cult backlash but for many varied reasons. I have done a lot of bridge burning in my life and it is not always best.

  As a family we made our decision to fade and see it as a temporary measure. We fully accept that there may be painful times ahead but ultimately what we choose for ourselves and what is best for all may be very different things. Some of the most courageous posters started as faders who knows what any of us will prove to be in the future. Have we really reduced ourselves to arguing our own psuedo hierarchy on a support board. didn't we all just leave a cult that did that?

  We have respect for all those who have been up front and faced the JC with courage and conviction but I also respect all those who have taken courage to leave the organisation through whatever route. Admitting you were wrong when for decades you followed a false prophet is hard enough.

  Even the DA'd and Df'd among us can be evasive about their JW past when meeting new aquaintances. We all hide things we are uncomfortable about from others.
• 

  moshe

  Gladiator- that sounds like standing up for what you believe in. Isn't that what I have been saying? Did I ever say that freedom comes without a price?

  After I quit the KH, I had tracts printed and they were sent to many countries, and JW outreach ministries. I received many letters from people that were helped. I personally visited every home in my home town and left two tracts- "they wanted to destroy my family" and " Warning to families who love freedom and truth". A , no visits from JW's, sign was part of each tract with instructiuons to tape it to your front door. The preaching work came to a virtual stop at that KH for many years and even today it is just a joke of a KH. Going D2D telling everyone I was wrong was my mea culpa, which I think is a valuable part of leaving the WT religion with honor.
• 

  garyneal

  As an outsider, I have been reading this thread with interest but have refrained from posting due to the fact that I am neither here nor there in regards to my being a witness and a fader.

  But I must take some issue with the results of the men who bravely stood up to the society and paid a high price for taking that stand. People like Raymond Franz, Carl Olof Johnson, Leonard Chretin and others. What are their effects on the society. Did they successfully weaken the society?

  You see, unfortunately, to died in the wool witnesses, they will never listen to the words of these 'apostates' and the society is quick to do damage control minimize their impact. And the outside world seems none the wiser, unable to verify the claims of either side.

  When I think of the effects of these people, I think of the people who tried to expose the scandals of Bill and Hillary Clinton back when Bill was a govenor, or people who try to expose the connection between Cheney and Haliburton. Unfortunately, nothing seems to stick to the society and it is hard for an outsider to know what is what.