Marking for future reading.... Sounds fascinating - what I've read so far... Zid
Ambushed!!!!! Fam'ly Intervention!
by sd-7 63 Replies latest jw friends
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Black Sheep
You have described a very typical encounter. You will get many more until you teach yourself how to control the conversation.
JWs don't 'ambush' me any more. They fall into my traps. I only discuss a very limited range of subjects and if they want to talk religion, they are going to answer my questions, because I sure as hell am not interested in answering their questions first, especially if I have previously asked them to prove a statement and they have 'conveniently' forgotten. I only ever discuss questions that they are uncomfortable with.
My arguements are based only on their literature and I put it on them to prove me wrong. I never say anything that I have to prove. They are the jumped up little Hitlers who think they have the moral high ground so I steer them to make untrue statements to defend their cult and then put it on them to prove it by showing me where the WT has printed a statement that supports them. If you know of an article that contradicts them ...... get them to read it to you! They don't like that, especially if it is a recent article.
Case in point. Counterfeit articles: It is not up to you to prove that the article really said that, it is up to them to prove it is counterfeit by showing you a kosher copy from the KH library or WTCD/whatever. At any later visit, if he is brave enough to open his mouth and say "Jeho ..." he should be interrupted with a request for his legit copy of the article in question. with a bucket load of accusations of negligence and guilt chucked in for good measure. He has had plenty of time to do it.
Here is something you could try if it isn't too late ....
Instead of informing a Dubby that the Generation has been changed for the umpteenth time, surreptitiously find out if they have read the April issue then, if they haven't, ask them to defend their current doctrine. Get them to stake their reputation on it if you can. Maybe use "What ifs ...?" to prompt them. In a few weeks time when you know that they have read it, if they bring up anything religious at all, ignor their subject and pounce on the statements they made about the Generation.
Remember, JWs are taught not to listen, so don't tell them anything. (Even when they ask a question, they do not listen to your answer with understanding.)
They are taught to teach, so ask questions.
You have to teach them that every time they put their finger on the element, they are gonna get burnt.
Cheers
Chris
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StoneWall
sd-7
I can understand the feeling of not sure of whether to go for the announcement.
When I was DF'd over 20 years ago, I went for the announcement.
It served multiple reasons for me to be there when it was said from the platform.
I wanted to show that I was man enough to take the punishment. I'm not the type to run from something because it
may be uncomfortable or a hardship. I like to grab the bull by the horns so to speak and hang on for the ride.
That's why after being reinstated in less than a year after it happened, it is so hard for me now to try and pull off a
successful fade. I'd rather be done with it and tell them what I really think about it all but as of now trying to pull
the fade for family's sake. I come from a big family with many on mom's and dads's side in the Org.
Another reason for me wanting to be there for the announcement was I wanted to see how it affected the ones in
the congregation. They waited on saying it that night till after the concluding song and right before the ending prayer.
The brother (Elder) that announced it had been a friend of the family for years and I had worked for him once upon a time.
He was slated to give the concluding prayer but started crying and another brother came up to do the prayer for him.
A sister after it was announced came up to me as I was on my way out the door and hugged me and said she would
always love me and have a place in her heart for me. I will always remember that sister.
But conversely I took a look back at the Elder that was the chairman on my judicial committee and it was almost as a
smile on his face. He and I never was close and we both knew the looks in our eyes that night and what it meant to us.
His expression on his face told me all I needed to know from that time onward.
Needless to say he was gone to another congregation by the time I sent in my reinstatement letter.
In my heart I know if he was still there I wouldn't have got reinstated as soon, if ever.
I will say this to you tho. If you feel a strong need to go as I did, then by all means go for it.
I knew back then if I didn't go, there would always be that lingering in my mind of how it went over,who actually said it
from the platform etc. Some people don't care and don't want to know. Me I was different, I had to know.
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fresh prince of ohio
My mom even suggested that demons might be on these websites
How does that work exactly? LOLOL
Apparently, these are all "little" things I'm just nitpicking at
Well, if once upon a time you engaged in a very shallow, indoctrination-oriented study of the Bible Watchtower publications that cherry pick various scriptures and throw them into a marvelous, explains-it-all religious soup, and you pretty much just went along with all of it and never really gave it a lot of deep thought, then i guess things like 607 v 587 might seem like nitpicking. I know I took their claims regarding 607 at face value and I never researched it as I didn't see it as being of any major importance. I mean, after all, they didn't teach hellfire and the trinity and the immortality of the soul! (ugh)
But, golly! If Jerusalem really didn't fall in 607 as the Society (and nobody else) maintains, then the whole basis for the modern JW religion is totally kaput! If they would just stop and ponder that for one lousy minute! But they're so fookin' manipulated by the constant and threatening proddings to Maintain Loyalty that to even hold a thought in contrary to Watchtower dogma for a second is virtually impossible for them to do.
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VoidEater
SD: Please accept, unconditionally, this warm and this fuzzy.
Who says you can't get those on the Interwebz?
The more you source your life from within, the less the outside storm can get you down...
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diamondiiz
sd-7:
You might enjoy reading Gentile Times Revisited by Carl Olof Jonsson. I like that book on par with Ray Franz's COC.
When and if you talk to any of your jw family ask them to prove to you 607BC. Let them do the work. All that wts does is it tries to downplay the evidence and they try to put doubts in evidence out there while never showing any sort of proof for 607 other than 537+70=607. If I ever get a chance to talk to dubs, that's all I bring up since the way I see it is if 607 is wrong, then 1914 is wrong which means Christ never came for inspection in 1918 and never chose FDS in 1919 thus GB are a fraud :) And putting your spiritual health in the hands of fraudsters is dangerous especially fraudsters whom you can't openly question. After reading the book you will have enough evidence against any 607 nonsense.
Your father sounds like a normal guy, try getting closer to him and maybe talk to him more outside of your jw circle where your father may take interest in what he hears from you and approach the rest of the family from his point of view which may open their eyes with time. Hope you all the best but healing takes time and the beginning is always the most painful.
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ziddina
"I don't know about you, but if I'm a powerful spirit creature bent on destroying JWs, why use a computer? ..."
Not to make light of your predicament, but I did see a bit of humor in your comment...!! [raises hand and waves it around in the air...] I wanna be a "powerful spirit creature bent on destroying JWs"!!!! [and I can't resist saying this...] "Send me!! Send ME!!"
Zid... being a total brat...
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ziddina
I liked "Undercover"'s advice, only I'd be more inclined to do something really FUN!! Go to a paintball arena with some buddies and play "war"!! Go to a Monster Truck ralley!! Go to an art museum - go to a theater and see "Hair"! Go see a really good "strip" act! Go see a really good "female impersonator"! Go see "Witch" - based on "The Wizard of Oz"! Go see "Avatar" - in fact, if you can rent it, watch it non-stop for 8-10 hours with some friends and lotsa popcorn, pretzels, and whatever junk/comfort foods please you - Malomars! 3 Muskateers bars! Or rent the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy! Rent all the "Harry Potter" movies!!
Sorry... Got carried away... We're rooting for you!! HUGS! (((((sd-7)))))) Zid
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ziddina
sd-7, you said, "Darn, should've taken all of my Wii games back..."
By all means, get ALL of your stuff back!! Tell them your stuff has 'demunzzz' on it/them...
"But yeah, only thing is, I have to take the wife to the meeting. I don't have to go inside, of course, and I have no money to catch a movie in a theater like I so desperately want to. So...will just have to make due with something at home...."
[Jaw hits the floor...] What, she can't hitch a ride with someone else??? O-kay, maybe I AM an internet demon - 'kuz if it were me......I'd be STRONGLY tempted to approximate a "Daddy Blue Smurf" outfit and greet everyone going into - or out of - the hall after the meeting... "Hi, Brother Knowzitall! Hello, Sister Smugarse!!"
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GLTirebiter
So someone sat down and decided to write 70 years' worth of Watchtower magazines, publications, pamphlets, and the like all for the sake of leading people away from this religion?
Put yourself in their shoes: an organization that went to so much trouble forging their so-called "Bible" would consider making up bogus Watchtower articles child's play. No wonder they think their own printed words are bogus!