Borg court: 2nd session

by sd-7 42 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  feenx

  "But I have had enough of feeling like garbage because of hanging on the Society's every word." VERY well put.

  I'm sure we all can relate to feeling that way. I say stick to your guns, because your stance on things has nothing to do with trying not to get in trouble for breaking the "rules" or anything remotely like that. Your issues, based on this post, seem based on your own morals and what you feel is right for you and your family. And as a man with a family, are they not the priority? The important aspect of evertying? Sure, you could tow the company line for your families sake. But it sounds to me like even your wife already has issues with it, it's simply her fear that keeps her in check. How is that really going to work out a few years down the line? Is being under the socieities umbrella going to truly bring you closer together? Or will it turn into a fasade that pushes you apart? How will your child view things as he/she gets older? Will you be able to keep up that appearance for you child? Do you want to have to keep up an appearance at all? Important questions and usually ones that the organization doesn't allow one to really think clearly about, based on their own particular situation.

  We all know the JC's will echo the GB and nothing well ever, EVER be as we feel it should. That would require self thought, and genuine emotion. Two things any JC lacks.

  You sound like an intelligent person who thus far isn't being sucked into their response. I wish you the best, and am eager to hear the outcome!
• 

  sd-7

  Dissed, that's an interesting point. What legal issue is at stake? The rules say you gotta ice a guy who talks smack about the Society. It's not like I'm going to sue them for defamation of character or something like that.

  It is indeed true that they had no right to know what happened, how it happened. But it was the only way to salvage things with the wife. Just because I told them what happened doesn't mean I feel they have any power over me. I did it for her, not for them. And also just out of curiosity. I wanted to see if they might start asking what positions we used. "So, tell us, uh, Brother Sd-7, uh, did you uh, use missionary position, as recommended by the Society, or did you do it doggie style like the uh, false religious pagan nations would do?"

  Anyway...lol...okay, let me stop that. I'm crackin' myself up. But it's a circus, dude. Once you realize that, those people have no meaning. They're just trapped in a little world. We got big enough to escape its poisonous atmosphere.

  --Christopher
• 

  poopsiecakes

  Hi Christopher. Thank you so much for sharing your saga with us. The points you make are so well put, it's great to be a part of your stream of consciousness.

  One of the many things that struck me was this:

  They used the gentle approach with my wife, asked her if we prayed about our sins after we did them, resolved not to repeat them anymore

  It intrigues me that your whole situation prior to your marriage was up for discussion in the first place...'resolved not to repeat them'? What, after your wedding were you resolved not to have premarital sex with your wife? Makes zero sense whatsoever. I feel so bad for her that she's still trapped in an unhealthy mind set and terrible for you that you know the real Truth and can't allow yourself to be happy about it.

  I hope everything goes well for you on Sunday and that you're able to stay strong - I really like and admire the fact that you are sticking to your guns and proving that they have no real authority...well done!
• 

  dissed

  SD-7 Legal stuff?

  Its just an Elder thingy. Sometimes they are told to consult before taking action to make sure all is done right, just in case. Haven't been around it for several years, but I can just imagine this 'web apostate stuff' has to have them all paranoid.

  Remember, if you are an Apostate, you are capable of some tremoundously scary things in their eyes, like even taking GB members away with you. Now that's power!
• 

  FuzzyPaul

  Dear SD-7,

  Christopher, it is so good to hear from you again. You really see to be coming out of your previous funk. I just poked on to check on you as you dropped this post.

  Liars tell lies.

  Slanderers slander.

  Mel, a Baptist friend has a JW wife from the same KHall we had gone to. He told her I left the JWs to become a Christian and she said that I must have "started smoking". You wrote,

  “if the organization has flaws, they said, it's still 'the truth' and the best thing there is out here. Apostates, on the other hand, just want to have sex and abandon God altogether. I was quick to point out to the elder who said that that "you can't make statements like that about every individual."

  I was a JW from age two to age 47, 45 years of indoctrination. I grew up 40 miles from the Brooklyn, NY headquarters. We went to all the BIG conventions in NYC. 6, 7, 8 day long INTER-national conventions. One GB member spoke after the other. NOBODY CAN SAY THAT I DON’T KNOW THIS RELIGION! My father studied 7 years with the missionary in charge of organizing the “60,000 Brothers” in Poland after they separated from Russia! I married a fourth generation JW! In 1969, in Yankee Stadium, N.Y.City we were told that Armageddon would come in 1975. When we left, we “KNEW” that we had the “truth” that nobody else had. We “knew” that only Jehovah’s Witnesses were “searching the scriptures” for “sacred secrets” to learn when the end would come. And we had “The Truth That Leads To Everlasting Life” book to spread the “truth.

  We placed 100 MILLION “Truth” books. The WT tripled their membership. The silence from God was noticeable. Nothing happened. No new signs of the “end of the system of things”. Nothing. I graduated high school, went to work, got married, went to all the meetings, assemblies, conventions, Memorials, read all the books. Nothing except the WT printing how “Christendom” was spiritually asleep and they were keeping on “watch”. The WT printed that “individual” brothers read too much into mentions of 1975. It was OUR FAULT that we got “false hopes” we read in the WT articles we studied in the Khall.

  You wrote above, “false religion is false for teaching doctrine that dishonors God”. Those words are always used by the WT to indicate “Christendom.” The words “doctrine that dishonors God” always meant the trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, the cross, Jesus being god. We “KNEW” that.

  I got a Kingdom Interlinear at one of those NY City conventions and an Emphatic Diaglott from the Khall book counter and twenty-five years later started using them at the Khall. I saw over and over places where the Watchtower had changed the wording of scriptures in the New World Translation. The NWT was changed to make sure a reader wouldn't get the obvious impression that the Bible supported the Tri-une God, Hell and with fire, an eternal spirit in man, the 'T' shaped cross, or that "The Logos was god".

  Changing the words of scripture is serious business : Condemned. Lying : condemned.

  People, as individuals , not members of a sect or cult are told in The Revelation to Saint John chapter 22 verses 14 to 21

  "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

  "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to attest these things to you for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright Morning Star."

  Both the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Anyone who hears should say, "Come!" And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift.

  I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book.

  He who testifies about these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly."

  Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

  The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen.

  And the Watchtower says it is "the channel of communication" but the Watchtower has printed that it is not inspired which means they are "men who receive no direct information from above". And they print that the Elders are appointed by the Governing Body who is claimed to be appointed by Jesus to “give the meat in due season” which due season 41 years ago was used to tell us to place “Truth” books because Armageddon was coming in 1975.

  It seems very ill advised to go to the Kingdom Hall at all or read their literature or even keep any of it. The Watchtower and its Governing Body is not anointed or appointed.

  You are stronger than they are because you have God‘s spirit.

  “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

  “You are from God, little children, and you have conquered them, because the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.”

  “God's testimony is greater, because it is God's testimony that He has given about His Son. (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son.) And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

  The one who has the Son has life. The one who doesn't have the Son of God does not have life. I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

  (The First Letter of Saint John Ch. 4:1,4 & Ch. 5:9-13.)

  What you must believe in is that Jesus is who his NAME, Yeshua Ha Moshiach says HE is. “Christ Jesus” translates literally to “Anointed Saviour”. Believe that HE is what his name says he is.

  “I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

  I have still been praying for you,

  Blessings,

  Paul
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  You mentioned in your OP facing this 'alone.' Want to remind you that we're all here for you. You're not alone. You did great.

  And yeah, the third session is likely just to give them time to confirm their decision and maybe drag some names of others you've maybe influenced out of you.

  Hang in there. You're doing great!

  The WT, like Big Brother in "1984" says that freedom is in obedience. Not true. Freedom is freedom and you're really close to achieving it.
• 

  sd-7

  Time to get on down the road, folks. Round 3 update will come on Monday.

  --Christopher
• 

  nugget

  SD7 This is the elders enjoying their power trip. Your wife got off lightly because she showed due deference to the cult and is therefore no threat to them. I am sorry that they want to drag this on for yet another session espeacially since they are not really wanting to examine how you feel or the points you have made. They just want to look all important and intimidate. These are small men feeling important by ganging up on someone else. Remember they have no legal training, no training in psychology, no training in investigation, no training in counseling their specialist subject is the policy files and how to apply them.

  What will be will be, keep strong, you have held up well, who knows whether you have made them think if only for a moment. It worked for my husband eventually you may be doing better then you know.
• 

  Pistoff

  If they told us to kill people, would we go along with that, reasoning that Jehovah would reverse that instruction in his own due time? Or would we follow our own conscience and show respect for human life? I hope we never have to find out the answer to that one.

  But they have asked this, sd-7; they have asked us to sacrifice our children and loved ones in hospital rooms, rather than accept blood transfusions. They make a mother, father, grandfather, grandmother, child bleeding to death an act of loyalty. The elders oversee this; it is a heroic effort for them.

  Think about it; good King David lied, whored, murdered, he was god's friend. We take blood, we get DA'd.

  They DO ask us to kill people, please be clear about that.

  I had a close friend bleed out from an ulcer; he left behind a wife and 2 children under 5. Hard to think that God would want him to die over a scripture they don't understand.

  The elders think they mean well, they get too much credit from even some ex-jws. They are corrupt, and deceitful.

  They have agreed to implement the policies of Bethel headquarters; they are interested in your sex life. They are interested in knowing your most private beliefs.

  They ask young girls what underwear they wore prior to fornication; I know a girl they scolded about drinking, telling her she could have been raped without knowing it. She said, I think I would know. They said, No you wouldn't. She had to tell them her hymen was intact. These are not the guys I want to spend another minute with.

  THAT is who the elders are. Interfering, prejudiced, prying, judgemental, capricious, blindly loyal to men in New York, and as you found out, profoundly ignorant and unable to think rationally.

  I give you credit for talking to them, but I would lie to them before I shared with them my beliefs about anything. I have spent more time studying and reading about spiritual/biblical/historical textual criticism than all elders together. They have no right to know what I think; they couldn't understand the discussion.

  P
• 

  WuzLovesDubs

  Thanks for the detailed update Sd. Felt like we were right there with you. You sound GOOD and CALM and thats everything bro. It really is. They are trying to intimidate you. This 3rd round thing...strictly to see you sweat if they can. A power play. Forcing your hand. And on Sunday they will probably ask you if you still consider yourself one of Jehovahs Witnesses. Its a yes or no question that they flat out asked ME. My answer was " Do I consider myself a witness for Jehovah? Yes." They didnt know what to do with that. But in the end I DAd myself because the elders and all my "friends" turned on me like wolves with the sneering and teeth baring and growling included. So I said fuckem. I am going to quit before giving them the pleasure and sheer GLEE of firing me.

  Took the gun right out of their hands. But in the long run...I could not give a flying fig about ANY of them and their self absorbed self important self righteous self promoting GB butt kissing selves.

  High noon huh...do you get to wear your six shooters?