Mill Hill Disfellowshippings and JW prayers

by VM44 28 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • VM44

    The following comment was posted in the "Mill Hill Disfellowshipping" thread:

    All 4 were disfellowshipped for believing that the entirety of the ransom, including the new covenant, and the mediatorship and everything else in the bible, applied to everyone.

    If that is the case, why do ALL of the JW prayers, public and private, end with "we pray this through your son, Jesus Christ, Amen"?

    Ending prayers like this implies that the payer is going through Jesus, hence Jesus is the mediator for ALL prayers made by JWs!

    How can the JW elders deny this?

  • snowbird

    A mere technicality.


  • VM44


    Technically every JW who says a prayer should be disfellowshipped!

  • sir82

    Jesus is like the intergalactic switchboard operator. Somehow prayers don't get connected unless you recite the "in Jesus name" at the end of prayer.

    Sort of like an area code, but you put it at the end instead of the beginning.

    Oh, and if you were to bring up your point to an elder, they'd point you to the scripture that talks about "if you ask anything in my name, it will be granted you" and expect that that should be sufficient for you. Continued questioning would get you marked as a troublemaker.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    I belive there was either a letter or an article in the KM that asked if someone forgot to say "In Jesus name" whether the connection would still get through

  • xbro

    sounds like more power games to me.

  • Alligator Wisdom
    Alligator Wisdom

    Interestingly Sir82, is that the scripture you quoted (John 14:14) makes a very significant point in the footnote of the NWT reference Bible.

    It basically quotes Jesus as saying, "If you ASK ME anything in my name..."

    Does it sound like praying to Jesus?

    Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

  • sir82


    Pointing out logical conclusions based on footnotes in their own literature will REALLY get you branded as a troublemaker.

  • Chalam

    How can the JW elders deny this?

    2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (New International Version)

    13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    Matthew 15:14 (New International Version)

    14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."



  • Podobear

    Perhaps I have missed the point here. When I prayed on behalf of the Bethel Family, I addressed Jehovah has heavenly Father and with both Jehovah and Jesus is mind requested Jesus guidance as head of the Christian congregation for his direction and help. In obeisance to Jesus I would bow my head as a sign of humility and make my request in his name and through the merit of his blood, shed on my behalf.

    I was never corrected, it was never disputed. The worship was to Jehovah using the mediation of Jesus. I am not aware of any change in the past 25 years. My Father continues to inform me of "new light", which seems to flicker all the time. Perhaps I have missed this one.

    In JW theology, I always thought they followed the tack of Quartodecimanism.. with a yearly celebration. The Anointed being the symbolic Jews and the Egyptian sympathizers joining with them to form the House of Israel. The only technicality here was that those Spiritual Jews received an anointing to serve in heaven with Christ.. and the greater crowd of sympathetic "Egyptians" that joined them would inherit the Earth under the rule of Christ and his Kingdom government. And thus, from this, the JW's had an intriguing interpretation of Jesus words to the Evildoer "Thou shallt be with me in Paradise".. I have heard many diffuse interpretations of this from the clerics of Christendom. The JW understanding is the clearest I have heard.

    For me the question always begged: It is the same hope of Salvation but a different destiny... do the Scriptures not say that all should partake of his flesh and blood? What has the destiny or inheritence have to do with it. What of the kids? Is there a kindergarten with toddlers and spotty teens learning all about the temptations and pleasures of human "sin" in order to correctly judge the rest of us? Will the philosophies of Christendom about life after death prove true.. with an eternity of death and disease and bungey jumping across the universe. 1 Corinthians 15 for me makes it all clear and flies in the face of most "mainstream" doctrine.

    The only instruction I can find... is that he that is unworthy should not partake.. including me (because I am now so far removed from grace I hold no set faith, but remain spiritual in my outlook)!

    For me, which ever way you spin the wheel of our destiny, Christ is our Saviour and Mediator. I have always understood it that way, never explained it any other way in the 20 years I spent in full time service.

    If it is different, things have indeed moved on and I really am scratching my head on this one.

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