by VM44 28 Replies latest watchtower scandals
You presume an awful lot Mr Brown.. broad brush strokes and no specifics. I joined here just a few days before you in the hope of finding comaraderie after 25 years of isolation.
Where have I said I do not approve of you and your methods.
Or, do you intend hijacking this board for your persistent hate rhetoric? Give me a break. There are some decent people here.
Jesus is rarely mentioned at the Meetings.
If you say Jesus more often than "Jehovah" or "the faithful slave" people start to fidget and get uncomfortable.
The close of a prayer is a technicality as Snowie says.
They would get rid of Jesus here too if they could.
HB
That wasn't my experience, Hamster. But, maybe that is because of my Pentecostal background. We spoke of Jesus all the time. Perhaps it is a case that the JW's don't speak of Jesus enough, but it is probably more correct to say that Christendom fidgets and is uncomfortable and hardly mentions Jehovah at all. Jesus elevated the Father.... should't his folllowers do the same?
Looking forward to any updates on my understanding of this subject of prayer. Anyone? All the best
Jesus is seen as head of every congregation. Any appointments and decisions are said to be by him and through him. Remember people, they believe since 1918 HE has ruled the kingdom. They never quite explain this well enough, but until the end of the thousand year reign, Jesus isin charge.
Interestingly, Jesus told people to pray "your will to be done, on earth AS IN HEAVEN." This wasnt fulfilled until 1918 according to WT teaching, as the Heavens were unclean until this time. That means according to their beliefs, the prayer was invalid for nearly 2000 yrs. This makes no sense. Also the people Jesus was instructing would have clearly seen it as a prayer for them, not for a future people.
But yes Podobear, you are right, Jesus was held in high esteem as head of the cong, mediator for all and saviour as ransom for mankind. He always gave God praise for his words and actions. The WT have certainly got themselves in a muddle over their beliefs. They make sense only if you question nothing and accept everything, ironically thats one of their rules LOL.
Thanks for your contribution knowledge seeker. The posts seem to have dried up. So, I take it then.. that JW's still hold that prayers by those who are not of the "Anointed" are still valid?
Does that mean that you are saying: All should partake in the Lords Evening Meal whether their calling is Heavenly or Earthly (what of the kids?), or that only those who feel they are "anointed" should partake? Can we raise a discussion establishing either view point? And what was the Scriptural reason (other than an alternative point of view) for the disfellowshipping of the Mill Hill 4? (This cliche is beginning to smack of the Tolpuddle Martyrs!! LOL)
All the best Knowlegeseeker.
The theological question of who make up the Body of Christ goes back centuries. Calvin with his ideas of Limited Atonement and the Election of the Elect plus their issuance of Tokens for Communion and the other camps who liked the ideas of unlimited election, Wesley and Arminius etc..
J.Rutherford and F.Franz had those influences growing up plus CT Russell's ideas an 'Elect' limited class, a secondary heavely class and near universal salvation for everyone else. In the 1930's the revision of the heavenly and earthly groups took its modern shape. An Anointed member was more like a Levitical priest with a special meal all their own. They layered Yom Kippur with Passover and came up with something new
When in doubt Punt
Thanks.. that is a useful overview, designs. So, the JW's count a New Earth in and as part of the Eternal Design. More Orthodox and Mainstream churches/sects/christians offer just a one way ticket with no end to death, disease and human delinquency. Is there not an argument for saying that noone is certain, and that our destiny and calling are personal.
Perhaps all who are baptised into Christ should partake, therefore.
Let God and Christ sought out where we will end up and what job we have to do. (Never did subscribe to the idea of an eternity playing harps - much more exciting building space ships and exploring the Universe - always been a Trekky, always will be!) Any thoughts?
Hello PB,
Here's some thoughts
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
15 His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Blessings,
Stephen
hamsterbait: They would get rid of Jesus here too if they could.
True. He's just another obstacle in the divine power stream from Jehovah to the gb. Soon they'll be saying Jesus had a Messiah complex.
I'll never forget the look and laughter from my JW brother-in-law when I said to him, "Jesus loves you." ... he thought that was funny.
