I think the WTS had a good deal to do with it but it isn't the only thing that turns me off. Evangelical, born-again types pushing their agenda do too. As for the Bible you are entitled to your own view, as is everyone else. All I would say is that although personally I think it is of very little value, I don't try to convince others of that on a regular basis whether they are asking for it or not and I would ask you to grant a reciprocal courtesy by regulating how much of it I have to read through on threads where the Bible isn't relevant. Naturally there is a degree of personal opinion about which threads may or may not be relevant but I would suggest that every thread you post on definitely exceeds that. I'd cut the volume back a bit too - it isn't any more convincing for its weight :)
Whilst I recognise that many on here have had religious or spiritual experiences which have been signficant, others haven't and I find preaching and references to the Bible tedious and dull. All I am asking is for some moderation in their use or if you must let yourself go do it in a place I can avoid (ie any thread that has the word Jesus, Bible, Scripture would probably cover it for me - but that's only my own perspective which I know many do not share).
I didn't find your initial response at all rude so there was no need to apologise to me. Thank you anyway.
Stephen, congratulations and thank you for a whole post without preaching!
Dunno if that is a good thing?! Anyhow, I was delivering the good news all the way, just no bible quotes :)
I've been through this question too many times to do it again. There was nothing lacking in my christian experience, Jesus was my closest friend and God (with a capital G) for around 8 or 9 years. You can accept that or not I don't mind either way. If you still imagine I don't understand the difference between the JW teaching on born again and the gospel you didn't read the article.
It is one thing understanding the difference, it is another things knowing it. I understand driving a Ferrari is different to driving a double decker bus. However, the experience of driving the two is something completely different. All I was looking for was what was your driving experience, in a nutshell?
How was Jesus your closet friend? What did He do in your life? What did He have to say? What was your experience with the Holy Spirit? No need for ten pages, just a few lines or a paragraph would help me understand.
As for what happened, the digest version would be "theodicy". It was not a sudden decision but a gradual process involving much thought, study, and an inevitable sense of "here we go again".
To me that confirms that you understood the difference between the WT christianity and Christianity but possibly never experienced it. Either that or you never found the freedom from all the WT chains. Plenty here have long left the WT but they are still held captive in many ways.
I now see the christian world view as being different from that of the JWs more in style than in substance. The particular body of "truths" differ, but submission to an external authority rather than reason is the final arbiter in all matters of belief.
We were not just victims of a particularly controlling cult we were captives of a superstitious world-view that encourages people to suspend disbelief and live for the next life.
It irritates me intensely when I see christians inviting JWs to join them in another version of what they are escaping from.
Not me! The promise is for this life too, "born again" means it starts right away :)
So where are you now. Have you gone from born again to atheism or do you just prefer to steer you own ship and God to leave you alone? If it is the latter, I understand, I held that view for 20 years!
I have great affection for many of the christians I worshiped with, but having survived both a JW and a christian experience I see my path from the watchtower to christainity as an unfinished journey; a detour or temporary tryst that taught me a great deal and which I do not entirely regret.
Naturally there is a degree of personal opinion about which threads may or may not be relevant but I would suggest that every thread you post on definitely exceeds that.
Gromit, of course my opinion is that the bible is relevant for all topics! IMHO it is thoroughly modern and speaks into any situation.
Some people like what it has to say but others find it irrelevant. Some find it life changing, other find it a curious read or an intellectual challenge.
It is one thing understanding the difference, it is another things knowing it
I "knew" it, I have no interest in trying to convince you. If it would be reassuring to you to believe otherwise; too bad.
Freedom from the WT chains was never a issue, my experience was not as painful or damaging as many others. I was/am not angry with the borg I just don't give a sh~t about them. I am not predisposed to accept or reject anything based on whether or not the WT accepts it.
I was a christian; now I'm an athiest, not the first, won't be the last.
I respect everybody's right to share their beliefs and argue for them but proselytising as you do is not a virtue.
Most of the time I just skip over Chalams posts. I don't even read them.
I think his responses would be more effective if he would put things into his own words. Then, if he wanted to add a scripture as a reference to back up what he is saying he could make an abbreviation link and put it in parentheses.
Many times people don't understand the meaning of a scripture or might have a different interpretation of it.
That's why I don't think Chalam's posts are very effective or communicative. His bible thumping gets old and it strikes me as a "holier than thou" attitude. I don't even see him as a real person because he does not show any personal thought or ideas.
Quotes without commentary is pretty useless most of the time.
Gromit, of course my opinion is that the bible is relevant for all topics! IMHO it is thoroughly modern and speaks into any situation
I am sure that is your sincere opinion. If however I felt the Bible (or any other topic for that matter) was irrelevant and disgusted me and I mentioned my opinion at length on every thread or everytime someone mentioned the book, I would consider myself to be inconsiderate of others. Your sincere belief doesn't mean it is therefore ok to push this belief constantly does it? If it does I see a worrying precedent being set. There is a time to remain silent and a time to speak no?
Chalam, Do not let others influence you not to use scriptures on your posts. I enjoyed your posts. Keep them coming! Do not ever give up!
cameo-d says "Most of the time I just skip over Chalams posts. I don't even read them."
That's fair enough. But I don't understand some of the objections to Chalams posting at all.
Frankly, there are some here who post a lot and rarely have anything to add except really silly remarks. I have found it easy to ignore them. I won't name names but Ninja comes to mind.
Personally, quoting the bible all the time irritates the hell out of me.
And that is what Chalam does, imo, in sincerity.
So though it irritates me, I try to look beyond that and see what he is trying to say.
Hell, if someone quoted Lord of the Rings to me cogently, I would listen, so I will give it a chance.
Carry on Stephen. :)
Gregor: cameo-d says "Most of the time I just skip over Chalams posts. I don't even read them."
That's fair enough. But I don't understand some of the objections to Chalams posting
I do not object to Chalam posting. There was one time when he quoted a scripture I had been looking for, for some reason. But my complaint is that when I have read his scripture, I did not see how it fit into the discussion. I think Chalam could improve his communication technique by adding commentary to his scriptures and why he thinks it is appropriate to the topic.