Chalam

by yadda yadda 2 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello Gromit,

    Thanks for your polite response.

    To be honest I just read my post and am I not so convinced-my apologies!

    I think it is both but its my problem to be honest.

    Well I think largely you have inherited that problem from the WT, as have many others. I think that the WT could have put me off for a long time also.

    Anyhow, Jesus is the rock that will cause offence and the cross that He died on an offence to those who do not believe. It sure does offend JWs when one starts talking about either.

    Galatians 5:11 (New International Version)

    11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    As a Non-Christian..

    And..

    Non Bible believer..

    I have no problem with Chalam`s posts..

    He behaves like a "Real Christian"..

    And..

    My Christian friends on the board enjoy his company..

    If Chalam wants to quote Scripture,thats fine by me..

    ....................... ...OUTLAW

  • cofty
    cofty
    Maybe the issue is you just haven't found the scriptures are relevant yet?

    I was a born-again christian for almost years after leaving the borg. I am not going to share my testimony to try to convince you but suffice to say if I was not a true believer with a living relationship with Jesus then nobody is. Here is a link to something I wrote about 10 years ago, I accepted the gospel with a passion. I eventually decided god is unworthy of my worship.

    The christian's need to defend the accepted dogma of their group and to foist it on others, however blatantly unreasonable it may be, is no different from the unquestioning loyalty required of JWs. AS Ray Franz commented in "Search for Christian Freedom" the chains are just a bit longer.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    I was a born-again christian for almost years after leaving the borg. I am not going to share my testimony to try to convince you but suffice to say if I was not a true believer with a living relationship with Jesus then nobody is.

    I am not doubting you, I am just curious as to what confirmed your belief that you were born again?

    Here is a link to something I wrote about 10 years ago,

    Wow, there is a lot of work there! I had a look at some of the 'bullet points'. For sure, you have grasped many theological concepts. I am still curious to the evidence of the "new creation" you had in your life?

    For me, the gospel changed my life. For sure, like Red, I wanna break my parole and get back to the "comforts" of prison sometimes.

    Red: [ narrating ] There is a harsh truth to face. No way I'm gonna make it on the outside. All I do anymore is think of ways to break my parole. Terrible thing, to live in fear. Brooks Hatlen knew it. Knew it all too well. All I want is to be back where things make sense. Where I won't have to be afraid all the time. Only one thing stops me. A promise I made to Andy.

    However, I made a promise to Andy too. I tried my way for 20 years and found "freedom" to be a prison. I much prefer Freedom, not freedom to sin, that is the chains, but freedom from sin.

    I accepted the gospel with a passion. I eventually decided god is unworthy of my worship.

    So in a nutshell what happened to you? Was the passion from the flesh or from the Spirit? Why is God unworthy of your worship? What element of God's judgement do you find unjust? I don't mean to cause offence but you will no doubt understand these valid questions?

    I too wrestled with God over the second death, does the punishment fit the crime? However, I realised I was getting nowhere! Do I think I could change the mind of the Creator of the universe? Do I know better than Him?!

    The christian's need to defend the accepted dogma of their group and to foist it on others, however blatantly unreasonable it may be, is no different from the unquestioning loyalty required of JWs. AS Ray Franz commented in "Search for Christian Freedom" the chains are just a bit longer.

    The full Christian life is totally freedom from chains. It is not following the law, rules or a religion. It is about the freedom that comes from knowing the Creator, He knows us better than we know ourselves.

    Everyone thinks they know better, I certainly did. I am done with that now. The different is like day and night, why would I want to go back?

    Many exJWs think they have been there, done that. However, the WT teach you are not born again or a new creation. Go check it out the bible and it is plain, a JW is a non Christian, non believer.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • Gregor
    Gregor

    This may surprise those who are familiar with me but I have a couple of Bible concordance links in my "favorites" for handy reference. I often like to either look up passages that come to mind or re-read favorite passages in various translations. I supply my own interpretation.

    Nothing wrong with the Bible. Don't let the bastards spoil it for you.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello Gregor,

    Nothing wrong with the Bible. Don't let the bastards spoil it for you.

    Looks like that was the WT right?!

    DF'd in '81 for questioning the org.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • Gregor
    Gregor

    Right. It takes awhile to filter out the WT interpretation of the scriptures but it would be a shame to toss a rich thing like the Bible out of your life.

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    This may surprise those who are familiar with me

    It doesn't surprise me at all. You have always struck me as an open-minded well-rounded guy that is highly capable of finding the diamonds of truth among the stones of deception. You are not the type to throw the baby out with the bathwater from what I have gathered from your no-nonsense postings.

    As far as the Bible goes, I have found it reads on at least three different levels. I learn something enriching every time I read it.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Stephen, congratulations and thank you for a whole post without preaching!

    I've been through this question too many times to do it again. There was nothing lacking in my christian experience, Jesus was my closest friend and God (with a capital G) for around 8 or 9 years. You can accept that or not I don't mind either way. If you still imagine I don't understand the difference between the JW teaching on born again and the gospel you didn't read the article. It is interesting that christians use the same defense mechanism as JWs reagrding ex-colleagues "they were never really of our sort".

    As for what happened, the digest version would be "theodicy". It was not a sudden decision but a gradual process involving much thought, study, and an inevitable sense of "here we go again".

    I now see the christian world view as being different from that of the JWs more in style than in substance. The particular body of "truths" differ, but submission to an external authority rather than reason is the final arbiter in all matters of belief.

    We were not just victims of a particularly controlling cult we were captives of a superstitious world-view that encourages people to suspend disbelief and live for the next life.

    It irritates me intensely when I see christians inviting JWs to join them in another version of what they are escaping from.

    I have great affection for many of the christians I worshiped with, but having survived both a JW and a christian experience I see my path from the watchtower to christainity as an unfinished journey; a detour or temporary tryst that taught me a great deal and which I do not entirely regret.

  • cofty
    cofty

    I agree with you Gregor I can still find a lot of treasures in the bible. I could read Eccelsiastes or Job for example and be inspired by it. Its like admiring a beautiful painting and then somebody goes and spoils it by insisting its something it clearly isn't - if that makes any sense?

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