Burn, are you really THAT thin-skinned? C'mon man!
The upside of atheism
Please don't hijack the thread. I'm making good progress in figuring things out for myself. (I've got to go to work now, I'll be back later.)
My apologies Paul - its a good thread and I hope it <and you> can make progress without any more puerile interjections.
However, I can understand faith in God as basically a hope for something better.
Hope is one side of the coin, fear is the other. Concerning existence after death, I have neither of the two.
You owe us an apology.
I apologise to all stupid Americans - happy now BTS?
Back to the topic . . .
Agnosticism is a cop out, it's intellectual shilly shallying and betrays a laziness of thought. To borrow from a previous post;
Atheism is not the belief that there is no god, it is the lack of belief that god does exist. Think about that. There is no such thing as agnosticism, it's not a middle ground because there is no middle ground to occupy.
If you are unsure as to whether or not god exists then you do not have the belief that he does exist. You lack the positive belief of the theist which thus defines you as atheist.
I'm in agreement with startingover, There is no such thing as Agnosticism. Agnostics do not exist!
Paul, appeals to authority aside do you believe in santa claus? Assuming that you don't, your complete dismissal of santa claus is entirely analagous to my (and probably most atheists) dismissal of god or gods, no straw man required.
Oh Burn, he was talking about me, and I'm fine with it. I would think you would be patting him on the back for acknowledging that I'm blabby.
I still don't think faith has anything to do with atheism. This paragraph of startingover's article seems to sum it up perfectly
No one can provide any "compelling evidence" that leprechauns do not exist. So what? Does that mean then that we have a-leprechaunists and agnosti-leprechaunists, with the former claiming leprechauns don't exist and the latter withholding judgment until all the evidence is in? No. You either do or you do not believe in leprechauns. So it is with gods.
Well regardless sweetheart I am still going to pray for ya
I know what I am now. I'm an Agnostic Theist.
Paul, you stated "Since we're just "choosing" these unprovable beliefs, why not just choose a belief that . . . . "
You cannot choose your beliefs not if you are being honest. I could choose to beileve that all children sleep in a clean, warm bed at night feeling loved and with a full belly. Believing that doesn't make it true. Another poster, dmouse, once made the comment;
"You cannot choose what you believe. Belief is not like a switch that you can choose to turn off or on, left or right.
You believe what you believe until something comes along to influence that belief enough to change it - you have no control.
For example, it may be nice to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden. I would love that to be true. But I cannot say 'I choose to believe in fairies' because, no matter what I state, say or do, I DON'T believe in fairies and NOTHING can change that ( unless a fairy knocks on my head and says 'excuse me!' ) Our beliefs are not fixed, they can change, but not without significant evidence."
Nicolau, I used to call my self an agnostic, because even though I didn't believe, I wanted to. I wanted and even expected that at some point, I would run across evidence that would convince me. I suppose it's not a correct definition, but to me it was a sort of middle ground. I have no expectation now, and frankly don't even care. I never think about my lack of belief until one of these discussions comes up.