don't you dare question them, even your sheep ass is on line and you're 2 heads away from getting yours sliced off at the slaughter house
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-17-10 WT Study (PLACE IN CONGREGATION)
Blondie - as always well done.
The title of the article made me laugh. In our family room we have a spot with a rug and a dog pillow for our dog. It is his place. When he is chewing a bone or doing other things that dogs do, he is told to go to his place. The command is "place". I think the WTS is treating the flock like a dog. The flock's place is similarly on the floor. They also are treated like a an animal in that their thoughts are "dog thoughts" not worthy of being part of the discussion. Maybe the only difference is we treat our dog really well and he is a happy little guy...
Thanks once again Blondie for a great wrap up. And, miseryloveselders, I love, and totally agree, with your observations.
This article was particularly brutal to sit through. I usually try to make some noncommittal comment to have the appearance of participation, but I couldn't find even one thought in any of the paragraphs that I could formulate an answer to in good conscience. I looked around and wondered how many people were really buying into this garbage or how many were just playing their Witness role but who don't internally believe one word of the propanganda. It's hard to tell. In one way, though, I think...okay, guys, bring it on. The more obsessed the WT gets with authority and control, maybe, just maybe, my family will wake up, or at least, start being disturbed enough by it to start thinking that something can't be right. That is the only thing that will make my suffering through this worthwhile. Actually, if anyone is freed as a result of this continued 'listen to us or die' drumbeat, it will be some consolation.
This is a weird article ! The believing family were disgruntled by the idea of being "put in their place", before the meeting. Having not pre studied it I ventured the opinion that they probably meant that (we) are glad to have a place in the cong.a place to belong - but after looking at it , I am not so sure..what do they mean by "Your place in the congregation"? Do they infer that it is like the Jews of Jesus day where they sat in rank around the meal table and they all knew their place?...Jesus said to get rid of that attitude...
The whole point of 1 Cor 12 , I thought, was congregation unity and equality and sharing and respecting all members whoever they are. So why does par 7 say that "Our place depends on what we are able to do" ...Are they admitting to a meritocracy?
Our Their place depends " Cooperating fully with the F & D S Class" i e counsel in dress, entertainment etc. (par 3) "Personal preferences should not be the sole determining factor" No, it is the personal preferences of the G B that count !
Strong words against a "Spirit of disobedience" like Diotrophes.."By word or action may we never challenge the channel of communication" "Submissive to those taking the lead" like cowed sheep!
Why does (Par 7) "The place a brother occupies in the cong. differ in some respect from that of a sister" - We know that he can do more things, but in a Christian system surely she has an equal place before God and Christ?
I could raise questions all night , but one more, fancy admitting that "At times it may be difficult for an unmarried sister to find her place in the congregation"[ Par 15] This is their 'household' , why do they make it difficult?
Both the family and me were totally confused. It is either the worst explained article ever . or the most honest and damning expose of life in the congregations of J W's
The idea of bowing to a slave is abhorrent to me. These days when hubby asks if I would like to study I reply, "You mean, take the word of a bunch of drooling old men who are fed pablum? No thank you."
I found paragraph eight interesting. One sister pioneered, the other went to work. The difference is described as "desire". As an outsider, I did not see anything in that paragraph that states that one condition is superior to the other. It's simply implied. Hubby caught on to the coded message, and spoke at length how much better one sister's choice was to the other. "Why? The other sister will be able to pay to fix her teeth and save for her retirement. Can't you be a Christian wherever you are?"
Hubby hesitated. He doesn't want to tell me outright that my "secular" career doesn't hold much candle with the witnesses. There's a definite "superiority" to an overtly "spiritual" calling with the witnesses. That dismisses the gifts and callings for a lot of other people, doesn't it?
This article can be summed up in words uttered by Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, back when he was a WWE wrestler: "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR PLACE IS!!! KNOW YOUR ROLE, AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH!"
Printing that would have saved them a little money, you know?
Everyone has commented so brilliantly on this article, I can't add much. But I did ponder the whole 289,678 got baptized in 2008 thing. 1.5 billion hours spent in the ministry, and the result was 289,678. Compare that to one talk given on the street by the apostle Peter, which led to 3,000 immediately getting baptized. But if you do the math, it would mean that all of that time is about 7 months devoted to each person. But there are 7,000,000 JWs, remember? Clearly millions of people did not devote their time to 289,678 people. Since usually one person studies with a Bible student at a time, maybe say, 600,000 people were actually involved in the study process. Being generous, we could probably say 2,000,000 were directly involved. (Often people take the same person to their Bible study every week. We all know that's true.) So um, that leaves an awful lot of useless magazine work for the other 5,000,000 JWs. No wonder they're being accused of coasting along!
But it is odd that no one made the connection with Moses => apostles => Governing Body. Moses opened up the Red Sea, did Ten Plagues, wrote the first five books of the Bible, led the Israelites through 40 years of clear evidence of God's backing. The apostles also gave clear evidence of divine backing and were eyewitnesses of Christ's ministry and resurrection. The Governing Body...runs a publishing company and um...writes articles and talks and keeps track of stuff by committees and coordinators and a lot of organized stuff and...SHUT UP! YOU BETTER OBEY US!!
Blondie, you never cease to amaze with your comments. Hmm. Single sisters might go after married sisters' husbands?? Shocking! I've not personally observed anything like that, though I did hear my mom speak of a sister who openly spoke of wanting to take someone's husband from them. Scary. Being married myself, well, I'm glad I learned about reality so that I know not to blindly trust everyone inside the congregation.
Well, let's hope that doesn't happen too often. Anyway, tangent! Bye!
Blondie said: "Who decides who is not part of "the great majority of Jehovah's people" who are not doing their best?
What does the phrase "full share" mean? Back in the 60's and 70's there was a quota set for each jw publisher of 10 hours a month, 12 magazines a month, 5 return visits and 1 bible study a month. There was even a large chart post at the front of the congregation. That is why "the national average" still centers around 10 hours. MS and elder appointments are determined by whether these men are maintaining the "national average." So was is their "best" and what does "full share" mean?"
I was recently told by a JW that there aren't requisite hours for different positions. Is there more recent proof available of what Blondie says above?
Also, I don't get the "289,678 got baptized" thing. Are they saying that isn't a lot? And why do they particularly call on the men to make something happen?
They no longer publish the "national average" so it will be hard to keep that 10 hour unwritten rule in effect.
Great review, as always.
I especially enjoyed this comment: Unmarried women have no status in the congregation. Married sisters only want to hang out with other married sisters. Married sisters are afraid that this lonely single sisters will make a grab for their husbands.
Where are the WT comments that people in the congregation invite these single sisters over for a meal or to study the WT? Why can't she invite people over? See the comment above--include that the elders are nervous when a group of single people of both sexes socialize.
Having been single, married then divorced as a witness I can completely attest to this. My single life was great - I was young, there were a lot of us young singles having all kinds of small to medium sized social gatherings and there always seemed to be something happening. Then marriage - lots of dinner parties and again a great social circle. Then divorce...the big D - all of a sudden, the friends I had when I was single were either married or weren't interested in hanging out with a divorcee (after all, the single brother quotient was always at the forefront and there's no way they'd stand any competition from someone who 'had their chance'), then all of a sudden my married friends weren't as interested in having me around as much either. When people are used to seeing you as a couple, they have a hard time understanding where you place in their lives. I still had some friends, don't get me wrong, but the social world I was used to underwent a drastic and depressing change.
I know that this same thing happens the world over, among witnesses and non-witnesses, but you'd think that a concerted effort to be 'no part of the world' would apply here with the JW's. They are, after all, supposed to look after one another so that there's no temptation to leave....gee oh well, I guess it's not that important after all!!
Blondie, I have to say that reading your commentary on this article changed my life. When I started reading your comments, I was so disturbed I went and found my copy of the WT that a family member always sends me that I never read. When I read this article, every piece of the puzzle fell into place for me. I had not noticed the manipulation and the glorification of the GB before. Because I was inactive, I hadn't read the literature for years, but still felt that JWs likely had "the truth."
I found the comments about never challenging God's channel, and being obedient to those in the lead, especially distressing. They have gone against the scriptures considering the fact that Abraham, a righteous man, persistently questioned Jehovah. So Jehovah can be questioned, but not the GB? That is so arrogant.
That disgusting illustration about the 2 sisters and the "desire" to pioneer showed the lack of concern for the individual that the GB has. All they are concerned with is using people up, and as the next article showed, you can also give them all your money and property in addition to your time, energy, and youth.
I will never forget this article. This is when I realized that this religion is in fact a cult. Now my mind can be free, so that I can live a "normal" life. Thank you for taking the time and effort to go over these articles Blondie.