Should I post here anymore?
You know that you are one of my favorites on here. I tend to gravitate to posters that are, in my opinion, balanced. They can write thought provoking pieces with tremendous insight, yet, can roll around and play in the mud with the rest of us. I don't condemn anyone for preferring strictly "fluff" or the hard hitting investigatory posts. To each his own, but I am getting a bit tired of so many people formulating opinions that are not based in reality.
I did a quick scan of all the topics that are flaming.
There are FIVE that I would consider to be "serious" posts with serious responses.
1.Space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C
2.Can a person get salvation if he never read the bible
3.Response to the Society
4.Child Molestation Story
5.Let's make a Little Wager (Extremely long)
That is just for today so far. The other threads that are flaming are the "good-bye" threads, etc. There is not one thread so far that I would consider "Fluff" that is in flames. However, that IS my opinion.
If you consider someone trying to help another from killing themselves,or Dannybear's reaction to so many announcing their departure from this corner of cyber-space, to be fluff I won't argue it. If an individual considers them to be trivial and a waste of board space, I strongly disagree with them.
Maybe it is because so many of those so-called good-bye and personal bashing threads touch such an emotional cord in us that they are more of a drain on our mental and even physical resources. Just something to consider.
Skip, I think you present many interesting ideas on here. I think that you should ask yourself what it is that you expect from here and from us. Is it that you don't get enough feedback on some of the more scienctic writings that you post? I know you must put considerable time into writing them. Perhaps I would feel the same if I didn't get the discussion and exchange of ideas that was hoped for.
Here's a personal analysis for ya, Skip. You are an very unique human being. Where ever you go, you are never going to quite fit among the general population. Most folks just do not operate in your realm. I hope that I haven't insulted you, because I mean it as a high compliment (as opposed to a "low" compliment, WHATEVER that is!
So, do what suits you best. However, take all things into consideration. Don't miss the forest because the trees block the view.
It's your choice.
I've thought about leaving several times myself. It's usually because I'm tired of hearing people scream insults at each other. I've just learned not to read those threads...what's the good in getting involved in other people's arguments?
On the note of serious v. fluff material - I come here for both. I feel I get a balanced consumption of both. I don't believe Life should be too serious. When you start living/looking at Life as just a serious issue, you miss out on the fun of it. I'm not saying the serious stuff should be ignored, but it's only a part of it - not the whole.
I've also had to define my expectation of the board. What do I want out of it? Do I just want serious? Do I just want fluff? Do I want to make friends/connections? If it doesn't fill all of my needs, am I being realistic by expecting it to? Is there anything in this world that can fill all my needs? Can I get some needs filled elsewhere and still be a part of this board?
My answer to that last one was yes. So I'm still here. I don't plan on leaving soon. I just think those are good questions to ask yourself if you wonder if you should leave.
As a rule of thumb only about 10% of the people have the temperament for serious involvement in various issues. If you live in a University community you will find perhaps 20 or 30% of the people have in depth knowledge or interest in a particular field.
I have a cirlce of friends - some jw's - some disassociated - some inactive that will tolerate my conversations. (approximately a dozen people). All of my kids and their mates like to have long serious discussions.
The fluff is needed to keep the tubes open. You need all the fish in the ocean so that the ones you want to catch can survive.
Most of the seats at the Kingdom Hall are occupied with non-participants - mostly women. If the non-participants quit coming their would be NO meetings at all. This forum needs every poster. It needs every kind of post to survive. But none of us have the RIGHT to everyone's attention.
Just a few comments on your post...
When you put in those hours researching something who exactly are you doing it for? Yourself or someone else? Do you get nothing out of it? Is the research you have done for nothing if no one else posts to it? Have you ever looked at how many people read it and maybe not post to it? I read posts sometimes and agree with them but don't say so just because I didn't realize that positive affirmation was required...lol also I have been scared to post on any serious topic since I got my head shoved up my ass last time by some one who needed to show me exactly how intellectually superior they were to me.
Yes I like to get posts to threads I start too..don't we all? But I understand that not EVERYONE cares about or is interested in the same things I am....gee maybe I should leave...maybe what I have to say isn't important...but you know what a big part of what I post is for ME. I posted about my sister because I felt a need to vent. To put my feelings in words...you have no idea how much better it felt...lol I was suprised at how much better I felt. Was it nice to hear from people about it? HELL yes! But ultimately I did it for me...
I really can't believe you said this either
better community to hang out inPlease define better to me...I am with uncle bruce on this one...I mean who the hell do you think you are? Just because I don't want to post to some heavy hitting JW topic suddenly I am inferior? Gee is that like being inferior cause you don't want to pioneer or reach out to be an MS or elder? Yikes JW flashbacks...
This is a GREAT community of people...these are for the most part kind, intelligent, witty, thoughtful people and I am sick and tired of psudo intellectial people putting anyone on here down for what they do and don't post to.
Simon has made a forum for Bible Research, he has made a forum for Cover-ups, there is a forum for Beliefs, for JW News...if you don't like the fluff..don't LOOK AT IT...
And one last thing...I can't help but wonder why people feel the need to completely cut themselves off from here...uuummm can't do more than one board at once? lol go and find your "serious" board where all they talk about is the UN or other ways they are going to take the Watchtower down..but does that mean you have to completely cut yourself off from the people here who have opened themselves up to you and befriended you?
Ok I am done now..whew..time to hit the mall..and dispense the fluff on a personal level...
Waaaaaaaaaay back when, this forum had about 8 threads a week. All 10 of us who posted....posted. We laughed, fussed, yelled, did research, discussed anything/everything - and some of us grew to love this kind of association.
Don't like whatcha see? Click to something else - or learn to jump in. Or post a thread. I know it's disheartening not to have your work viewed with interest - and interest enough for people to respond with more than "Go girl." But this is a Big Place now - over 10 pages to review in a 2-day setting. So some gets lost.
A true statement made that most of conversation is fluff. Just because it's interesting, it may not be interesting to the next person. Just because it's deep to us - the next might not care at all about that particular deepness.
And sometimes my jokes just fall flat.......go figure.
But what do we remember from the people we meet? Some deep, but mostly, the friendships, the trueness of the time. That's a gift.
Old Timer Waiting
As a sidenote: think back - what do we remember about a particular poster, particularily the ones we like.
AlanF - sure, his deep posts. But remember Mulan put up some pictures of their gathering.....and ol' Alan looking like a dufus and laughing. Still makes me chuckle - as I can view him as "just a guy."
Farkel - sure, his deep posts. But he once posted about Rick (when he was disenchanted with the WT) at H20 - about losing your one true love, equating it with our lost love with the WT, and contending with the pain & sorrow. The only post of his I ever saved....and brought over here. It was fabulous, like liquid poetry.
UncleBruce - sure, his prior deep posts.....of which I haven't a clue (sorry ub.) But lord, that man can make me smile, giggle, even cackle a time or two. My sister even e-mailed me at his ability to charm her through his humor - and he wasn't even posting to her! A fine gift.
I'm not advocating a constant ((((((((hugfest)))))))). But some sure does make the day go better. Besides, there are excellent sites on research.....deep, deep research. And a wise person would be reading, learning while coming here also. Sometimes to do both here, eh?
Of course you should continue to post here. So should anyone else who has an interest JW-related issues.
My idea of the Ultimate Fluff Post (UFP): "I'm leaving because there's too much fluff here."
I hope to be spared such dramatics in the future from all of you "superior posters." Personally, I wouldn't mind if you just silently drifted away, just as I did from the org.
Seize the day, and put the least possible trust in tomorrow. - Horace
I have learned to live each day as it comes and not to borrow trouble by dreading tomorrow. - Dorothy Dix
Celtic asked a similar question in the "Suicide and This and That..." thread. I'll repeat my answer here.
I'm sometimes discouraged, too, when I see "serious" posts, ones I feel cut to the core of what causes the harm within the JW world, slide quickly down the active view while social posts, FredHall, and YouKnow hover at the top. At the same time, I realize it's not for me to judge what is important or helpful. If I want to make a contribution to the board, for me it has to be just that--a free gift, no strings, no expectations.
Logic is not enough to heal someone after the JW experience. We need to grieve and run through the whole gamut of emotions associated with grief--anger, sadness, guilt, remorse, inadequacy, depression. My guess is that by the time most folks have reached this board, they've usually already had some questions and doubts and have done some research and are probably ready for the emotional release of venting and just having some fun. I also think each of us needs to reassure ourselves that we've thought through the beliefs correctly this time. Pointing out the flaws in arguments from the likes of YouKnow are helpful in this regard.
I'll add to this that whenever I jump into a fluffy thread, I somehow don't mind that I'm pushing "serious" posts down the board.
I also like the idea that once solid research is posted, it can be retrieved and pulled back to the top for reference and rereading. If Simon creates a forum archive, this will be even easier.
AlanF's comments in the "Simon--Suggestion for a New Forum" thread are also pertinent:
You seem to be someone who wants to deal with serious issues about the Watchtower Society. That is admirable, and I'm sure you well know that my sympathies lie with serious posters. However, there is a wide variety of people who come onto these discussion boards, and they bring a wide variety of information and experiences along with them, most of which is valuable in letting others know about the nastinesses in the JW experience. There is a great deal of "noise" on these forums, but that serves a purpose for the many participants who are not interested in or not capable of dealing with what some consider serious issues. The noise is largely the emotional aspect of being an ex-JW, and since religion is at its root an emotional exercise, the abandoning of a religion also has a huge emotional component. You need to learn to allow for this. There is great healing in coming together as a group and comparing experiences.Ginny
. . . What some call "dry information" and consider thoroughly boring is, as you more or less point out, absolutely necessary. But the emotional aspect of our JW experience is just as important for those who don't care about the "dry information".
Xena! I think you are on to something!
I think people need to ask themselves just WHY they come here and frustrated active posters need to ask just WHY do they post?
Mainly, when I post an opinion on something, it's to just express an opinion or an idea. For the most part, it's for purely for "selfish" reasons. Most of the time, my posts are ignored. That's ok, I don't post to earn the respect or applause of anyone here. Oh, sometimes what I post touches someone, and then let me know. It's also nice to know I can help someone once in a while.
I think that Proplog2 said it very well. Most just don't have the ability, or the want, to discuss serious issues at length. I like long discussions about subjects that I some experience in and knowledge. However! A scientist I ain't! If I don't have something to offer to the conversation or what I think to be a valid question, I keep my mouth shut and listen. I have learned much that way.
Anyway, MC, I just have one more thing to say to you:
DON'T MAKE ME GET THE ROPE!
YES!!! Continue posting -- ur funny honey!