Mother's Letter To Start Off The New Year...
Hey MA, I like your posts, but if you had a friend, and they were telling you a problem with their family, and a nasty letter one of them had sent them, for them to show it to you would be unethical? It's BILL's letter now, and BILL can do what he wants with it. It was given to him.
As for sympathy, maybe the man is feeling bad about things. I know I am right now. But, why are you so pissed, MA?
Has something like this happened to you before?
Thanks again silentlambs for posting it here. Anyone who believes that you could possibly fabricate something like that has never been on the receiving end of such JW "love".
I think your purpose in posting it here is evident to anyone who's ever been through this alone. And we appreciate it.
teejay, man, there is just nothing I can say. You are stuck on one point and you can't see around it. You seem to be having such a good time insulting me that you haven't noticed the other people in the thread expressing similiar thoughts to mine. If you're trying to get a rise outta me, you're wasting your time.
You don't know anything about the way that I am, or think. So, again I'll just say thanks for sharing and I wish you peace. I'm leaving it here.
I have read the post in ref to whether he should or should not have posted, whether it is "Ethical" or not
both sides make good arguments-
but i think a much larger picture is being missed -
this letter allows the NONJW world as well as JW to get an inside view of the MIND OF A PROGRAMMED JW
his letter speaks volumes- i have showed this letter to 2 guys here in the server room
they can't beleive that a grandma and mom would write such things BASED ON the fact that her son whats to take a stand against child abuse
i explained it to them that the avg jw will sacrifice anyone and any relationship in behalf of the org
the way she spoke to her son bill, the way she spoke to the kids as one guy says you would have thought that her son bill was a drug lord-
This type of letter in my view goes beyond the normal chit chat between mom and son and grandkids
this lady has told her son and grand kids YOU ALL WILL DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
so to try and say this is the same as a grandma writing a letter to say that she is using 5 "DEPENDS" a day on the bed now cause she can't hold her water and bowels- in my view is not the same
this letter is the type of letter that her neighbors and folks who see her walking up and down the stre with a bible in her hand would have no idea that she feels this way
this letter removes the mask that JW are such wonderful and loving and kind bible loving folks- it reveals the years of intense indoctrination at all those meetings
this letter let's the neighbors both on the net and in here neighborhood as it were see what all those meetings and books she has been attending has done to her
NATURAL FEELING FOR HER FAMILY
MOST folks are shocked when they read a mother would abadon her son and grandkid in behalf of a manmade rule a that can change over night
when she is sick and down there are no OLD FOLKS HOME the congo will more than likely not set her up in a home to see after her
instead her son the one who has left god - the grandkids who are following there dad and the daugherinlaw who supports her wicked husband will have to take care of her old behind in the end.
Every single one of us i dare say know that after all is said and done it will be Bill, the wife and the kids who will have to take care of her and why
because she like the rest of us own "Beach Front Timeshare Property" that we bought from the WT for WEEK 53
I think this letter is indeed needed esp if it will help show someone what happenes when your mind is taken over by the WT
just my 2
I wish I had the guts to send a letter.
I come here instead.
JT: good points. The letter does emphasise the outrageous behaviour of a JW to a son who has done NOTHING wrong! As ex-jws and having experienced it ourselves with family, I think we actually become desensitized by it. Those who have never been JWs respond with confused disbelief that this sort of behaviour actually goes on.
Silentlambs: Im really glad you posted this. It helps me because at the moment Im living with my JW mum and I've had many things said to me that hurt. Im no longer regarded in the same way as my other siblings who are still JW - and even though she doesnt say it, it sort of comes out in her attitude towards me. Wierdly, my non-jw stepdad seems to defend the JW religion at every chance, and often puts me down. I know they love me, but that love seems to always be tainted with judgements and condescending comments.
Anyway, thanks, and I hope that things improve with your parents eventually.
I think the ones who are critical of Bill, do not have a parent or parents, that are emotionally abusive. I know Esmerelda and myself do. As to the rest of you, some of you are just unkind in what you have said here.
Any situation can have an argument for or against it.......some of you have eloquently made a case for not sending the letter, and not posting letters here. Others have made a case for doing same.
Bill, I for one, think you are doing the right thing. Why should your mother be the only one to have her say? You deserve the opportunity to reply to her, and say what you think needs to be said. I appreciated your sharing with us, and I shared it all, with a houseful of family yesterday. All here agreed that you should send it. Of course, many of us know you personally, so know your tone and intent. That makes a difference too, I believe.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
Those who have never been JWs respond with confused disbelief that this sort of behaviour actually goes on.
To me this is the key reason why i think under these circumstances posting Mom letter is needed
Almost ever nonjw i have shown this type of letter to THEY ARE IN SHOCK
They just can;t believe someone would have those views
Just wanted you to know that Bob and I are thinking of you and yours. Good luck, whatever you decide.
"May the work of your hands be a sign of gratitude and reverence to the human condition." - Mahatma Gandhi
the only thing you can do is hopeing that one day your mother will understand what you´ve talked about in your letter if you send it.
I can imagine what you´r feelings have been while reading her letter. She is talking about loosing you. How wrong is she. Aren´t they the ones who are lost for all critical opinions? I love my parents so very much and especially because of that it hurts a lot that they won´t understand. Intelligent people but without any own opinion. How can you tell them?
I whish you lots of luck.
P.S. Sorry because of my bad english.
Bill isn't df'd but in his case such an act by his congregation would only be a formality. For all practical purposes, he is viewed as worse than df'd... worse than a reg'la ol' apostate. Any Jehovah's Witness who knows his situation sees Bill as a fighter against God himself.
What Bill did in taking a stand against not only his congregation but the governing body is a deathly serious offense. Anyone who is shocked by the acts of those in Bill's cong. either doesn't know much about JWs or is not being honest w/ themselves. Anyone who has spent any length of time as a Witness would know exactly how Bill would be treated -- even by his parents. Bill must've known.
Posting the letter his mother sent him was pointless. Again, if you know Jehovah's Witnesses you know how they think and you could probably write such a letter yourself. There is no need for the Society to have supplied his mother with a 'form letter' as some seem to think.
As I said in my first post in this thread, on Christmas weekend my mother said some of the exact same things to me and she wasn't reading from no form. I wasn't shocked... not taken by surprise and left speechless. She could have kept quiet and I could have spoken her side of the argument for her. Listening to her viewpoint was as predictable as reading a Watchtower article on "why is there suffering" and "will it ever end?" I've read such an article fifty times in my life and I could probably write one myself. Likewise, I knew not only my mother's arguments but also the reasoning behind them. After all, I was a Witness for damn near 30 years. Listening to my mother was like reading the alphabet or counting to ten.
Every JW and ex-JW worth his salt knows that you cannot win a biblical debate with a JW. Period. Answering his mother's letter from a scriptural point of view is pointless and will not produce a positive effect if it's reconciliation with his mother that he wants to achieve for himself and his children. As Frenchy said on page one, "when evil fights evil, evil wins."
If he sends THAT letter, he might 'win' the argument but he will really loose because he
- a)has been overcome by strong emotions
(who wouldn't be in his situation)
b) has not come up with a good battle plan to
counter the JW mindset
c) has not executed what plan he has very well
d) has shown a certain bull-headedness that causes
him to ignore suggestions that a more accepting spirit
might allow him to see. (I'm not knocking his attitude.
He is probably acting as 99% of humanity would act given his circumstances.)
The only way he can "win" in this situation is to outflank his "opponent (for the lack of a better term)." Rather than talk to his mother with a view to showing her where she is scripturally wrong/misguided and he is right/noble/well-intentioned, he needs to use a very different approach... one she is not accustomed to seeing in him.
He needs to drop the JW bullshit, the bible bullshit, and simply appeal to her heart as his mother's son. LB gave a profound suggestion on page one, a tactic that worked for him. He used the power of love. (Also, I must say that Larc's suggestions should be considered very seriously. If I were Bill, I'd plan a personal visit to Larc's neck of the woods.)
As I said in my first post here, when my mother started the "you've turned your back on Jehovah" bullshit, I cut that line of argument short. I told her that I was the same baby boy she raised, that the love of truth she put in me long ago still burned strong. I didn't use a single scripture when I talked to her. I didn't try to prove her wrong and me right as though I was out in service again tyring to win a debate with a householder. I tried to appeal to my mother as only her son could. I think it worked.
In fact, I know it worked. In the end, both my mother and I 'won.'