Mother's Letter To Start Off The New Year...
Whether we are hard wired a certain way, I can't say, but there is plenty of empirical evidence regarding attitudes, beliefs and there resistence to change especially when reinforced by the reference group (See my social influence thread.) Research goes back many years to Kurt Lewin and his field theory, where he refers to core beliefs as being frozen. When and if they become unfrozen, it can be very traumatic to the individual until their beliefs have a chance to reorganize themselves. Festinger's work on cogitive disonance also shows the Angst that can result when two core beliefs are in logical conflict. In JT's terms, I don't think Bill should try to take away his mother's shopping cart, even if he can. Most likely, he can't and she will come to hate him, which I don't see as a desirable outcome. Festinger's theory would predict that as a likely outcome.
After reading the various replies here,I believe it's simply your call Bill.
As in the theraputic world,one approach doesn not fit all.Hence the various techniques and approaches on communicating.
Some may need a softer,gentler approach,and others need their sick thinking directly challenged.
Sometimes it's an esteem issue where new information causes fear as it shakes ones very foundation of belief and worldview.
In the case of JW's and their automatic 'stopthink' it usually changes nothing.
If you have a strong sense of personal identity and your sense of worth isnt based on the validation of others,if you know you don't need others approval to
own yourself and your humanity,send it.
One of the anchor points in our lives is our family.One thing recovering people need to understand that these anchor points may no longer be positive and healthy for us.
Hans Selye once wrote,"Only thru planned self analysis can we establish what we really want;too many people suffer all their lives(or a good part of them-my words) because they are too conservative to risk a radical change and break with traditions.'
When clinging on to an anchor point that has become psychologically and emotionally destructive,time to re-think buying into traditions that are destructive and harmful to your well-being,on any level.
From the beginning of your 'coming out' and stance on the pedophile issue,you have been abused in various ways. From those you once considered your brothers and sisters in the faith,treated like an outsider now. And along comes the family pressure,the guilt trips and condemnation,in essence,to keep you quiet. The only reason you havent been df'd is because it would be bad PR for the WTS at this time.
I don't really know if your letter would give them their reasons too.
That again is your call.You know how the org works(all too well unfortunatly) I'm sure you'
ve sat on jc's.You've got the insight.
Just something to consider,thanks for reading.Tina
Di Risata Molto!!!
Both you and LeeElder make some very compelling arguments. And it is a given that SL will do as he see's fit, in regards what he says to his mother and father. That being said, here is some reverse thinking in the matter.
Leaving the WTBS is a far cry different affair, than leaving your job or local Moose Lodge. Often you try not to burn any bridges with former employer's, mainly for the simple reason you want to keep lines of communication open. This is true with other social/community associations, as well.
The fact is, SL for all intent and purpose, has been df'd by his congregation and family. History and recent info regarding, how family member's are to 'not have anything to do'(no contant) with family member's shunned, really leaves no 'door' cracked. You are persona non-grata, no matter how much love or concern you display.
So although your thoughts about taking the 'shopping cart' away, may in fact have some basis, which is truly showing more love, allowing your loved one's to think, you are still unsure, still ripe for repentance, or the truth? I always think the truth works to shake up the cob webbs in the mind, better than placating or softening the blows.
It is obvious from the tone of his mother, she knows how to give it. It is probably no leap, to think that SL also understands how to talk to his own mother...
I guess the twenty years I have been out, has left me little tolerance for sweeping the truth under the carpet, no matter how distasteful to relatives it may be.
If there was ever any trust between family member's, the words of truth spoken, may fall right into place, at the strangest time. Perhaps the next time they(his parents) are told, read, study the same mind numbing drivel they have for year's, his truthful revelations will penetrate thier brain cells. Almost like the farmer with a 'jackass'....he sometimes used a 2x4 to get his attention.
Softening the blows will only prolong the anguish. For both parties.
larc being pressured and influenced under 'the aegis of authority' as Zimbardos experiments showed,doesn't prove anything about being hard-wired for it. Actually zimbardos conclusions regarding that experiment would show that those in authority are more culpable. And a case using that in showing elders more culpable would be valid. Who in the cong has this 'aegis of authority'? Who 'set' the tone in that experiment? What influence did the white coat have? I dont agree about core beliefs being frozen. if that were the case none of us would be here.
BTw,I am very very familiar with those classic experiments in psychology. I did read a couple on your thread,not all as I have all the texts gathering dust on my shelves here. T
Di Risata Molto!!!
Tina asK for evidence:
i have none and i didn't see any either-
my point in posting was to show that as humans we have the ability to see facts and disregard them at the same time
personally i have seen no better example of that than jw in my personal exp
allow me to give you a couple of examples
you have a person that has been friends for 35years, best of friends
one night they read the person off as DFed- How many jw do you think will call up that persona and ask "Girl what did you do?"
not many and why -well the indoctrination process of jw has prepared all jw for the night that someone is DFed-
1. we were told that the person is unrepeantant,
2. the elders handled the matter and
3. don't you question if it was done right,
4. and most jw never stop to wonder "DID THE ELDERS HANDLE IT RIGHT"
5. and don't you speak to her to show your loyality to god
another example -- you or i download 100pages of all documented wt flip flops and errors- we take it to our very best friend to read-
they will not even OPEN THE PACKAGE and if they do they read it
MANY TIMES THEY WILL SAY: "Yep the society said and did all that stuff, but it still don;t mean this ain't the truth"-
you say: "Well what about the UN STUFF"
AND THEY SAY: "Well i'm sure they got their reasons and I ain't questioning the annointed of jw just like david"--
yes BAD BELIEFS DO DIE HARD
and while the article provides no real data- i personally found after reading the information it gave me a different perspective on why so many former jw find that thier EFFORTS are shot down as soon as they enter "WT Forbidden AirSpace"
of course i don;t think that what works for one will alway work or not work for another, but i do know that FACTS AND PROOF rarely Causes a JW to run out of the Hall
it is truly telling in that for an org and group of people who Hold THE TRUTH up so high as a bannner --rarely are really interested in THE TRUTH --only if it is told by The Boys in Writing
So although your thoughts about taking the 'shopping cart' away, may in fact have some basis, which is truly showing more love
and this was my only point - WHY BE LIKE THEM- we know they act the way they do because of the indoctrination process-
if the tables were turned-- i dare say most of us when we were IN perhaps would have responded much like his mom- the jw firmly sees no difference to disagree with the Org is = disagreeing with god
it shows that the indoctrination process of the wt works
recall Pavlov dogs- smile
as you mentioned his mom can dish it out- but is that not what we would expect- in fact i saw a number of folks say:
That sounds like some sh!t my mom and dad wrote me
or they must have been using the SAME SCRIPT
I thought that was so telling -- the "Same Script"
and we all know that it the case-- they repeat at rote wt lines like on a movie set-
my point is they are the ones being mean and nasty, why be like them-
i read his letter and the contents sound like things the wt has told all jw to expect from an Apostate"
i personally see no need for any of us to become the self fullfilling propheices of the boys in writing-
recall how we use to tell a bible student that his family will not be happy cause he is studing and then the next week they say:
"YOU WERE RIGHT I TOLD MY FOLKS ABOUT MY STUDING WITH JW AND THEY WENT OFF"
to the student you have appeared to be some great prophet of the word- when in fact his folk went off cause they realize and perhaps have seen the dumb stuff jw practice and believe
but like i said This is America, smile
Yes this is America, but the poor souls in Watchtowerland have had there freedom's snatched away. They are in chains, unable to free themselves. They are on fire without awareness of the pain.
So toss them a little love and hugs....still on fire. Douse them with the truth and just maybe it will penetrate.
Take away thier carts, expose the source of pain. For many it will be the first time they have ever been confronted with truth. Coming from a loved one, they will at least ponder it.
How many year's went by while still in the orgs clutches, did you go without ever reading, researching the real truth?
Conversely how long after being exposed to the real truth, about the 'truth', did it take for you to make your leave? Not very long eh?
Some brief observations:
For one, I'll say that I read your mom's note to you and yours to her. I got to the end of the first sentence of the one she wrote to your kids but I started to feel a little dirty... no... a lot dirty... like I was prying into somebody's personal diary, so I left that one alone. What your mother says to you is one thing. What she says to her grandkids is nobody's damn business. Well, maybe yours – certainly not the business of strangers on the Internet.
As for what she said to you, there must be something in the air. My mom (also a reg. pio) just last weekend said some very similar things. Said that she just could not BELIEVE that I had turned my back on ALL that she had taught me. I told her that deep down I was still the baby boy she raised, that I'd only examined my religion like I often told householders *they* should do.
After she'd said it a couple more times, I just said, "Ma, it's not that hard to figure if you really want to. Do you want to?" She did. I made her pick something – be specific of what I'd "turned my back on" – and we had a nice long conversation at the end of which she wasn't saying what she said before. My baby sister was there and, very unlike my know-everything sister, never said a word... just listened to what I said. We'll see what comes of that.
To be honest, I have to say that you have an odd way of speaking to your mother. Calling her appeal to you "venom" is very strange, regardless if you think it's all bullshit. The sermon that followed is also... well, I know we're all different and there's a lot going on that hasn't been spoken, but I couldn't see me EVER talking down to my mother like you seem to have no problem doing. We're about the same age, so don't go thinking that age is a factor is our (your and my) differences in ways of communicating -- it ain't.
Lastly, I am wildly curious about something. Does she know that you are sharing her private words to you and your children with the world of web surfers? Somehow, I doubt it. If I'm right then you are way wrong in posting her private notes here. You need to get a grip and cut that out, Bill.
Helping defenseless kids is one thing. Betraying the love and trust of your mother is whack, my friend, and there is no justification for it. If that's what you need to find strength to continue your present course, perhaps you should take a couple of steps back and make a serious reassessment. Committing one wrong to correct another doesn't make much sense.
Yes this is America
my point was "He" is free to do as he pleases
if he wants to try the gentle approach he can- if he wants to slam her against the wall mentally speaking --here in america that is his choice
so after all is said and done he can do whatever he wants bottom line
my suggestion was try the gentle approach- what works for you and i may not be the same - what you chose to do is up to you-
I just see no reason in becoming what so many of us claim we hate-
Unloving and Unkind
If he were to take his mom's letter to the house next door they would think that his mom is on "Crack" for dogging her son just because he spoke out on matters of Injustice
but then again the folks next door don't buy into the FDS we speak for god routine
You didn't hold back much, did you?
Like I have told you before, many of us by the luck of the draw, or some other otherworldly event, just don't have the cards fall into place so easily.
I did not take SL's revelation in more of a personal affront, than I do the rest of us laying out our often, less than private affairs, here on jw.com. That's what we do here, reveal intimate spiritual hurt and experience's.
Maybe SL just needed to hear what other's idea's were, before he did anything.
I think your own wonderful relationship with mom, has clouded your normal give and take.
Maybe Iam wrong, but you came down pretty hard on a guy, who did nothing more than ask for some help. Right or wrong, he got what he asked for, I guess.