Mother's Letter To Start Off The New Year...
If I'm right then you are way wrong in posting her private notes here. You need to get a grip and cut that out, Bill.
Perhaps if you knew more of the way that silentlambs has been treated by his parents and his local congregation, you would reserve judgement on his coming to his friends here for support and input.
If you don't want to read or comment on his posts, then don't. But why take pot shots at him for seeking support from those of us who have been in this very position and had to struggle through it alone? I know that I certainly wouldn't want a friend of mine to go through it without any support, like myself and many others have.
I think that his decision to post his correspondance here is just that, his decision. If you don't want to comment, then don't. But then just click off the thread and leave the man alone. No need to try to embarrass him for your own personal discomfort with the topic.
Why post it here? I know why I have posted some seriously personal "Diary" kinds of things here. To help people. For the lurkers. From the mail I get, believe me, it's appreciated. I'm sure that many people will be helped knowing that they're not alone in receiving such letters from their parents. That in itself, to me, makes it worth posting.
so maybe you need to get the "grip"
Dooya think I came down hard on Bill? Really? I don't see the problem. He us what we thought... I told 'im what I thought.
Imo, he focused too much on the words but missed the intent of his mother's letter (or didn't give it enough attention) and he was condescending in the letter he wrote in reply. Worst of all, he revealed a confidential matter between two parties without their OK, perhaps knowing he'd get tons of slaps on the back (and to his glee(?), that his mom would be ridiculed). Not cool. Not cool at all.
I did not take SL's revelation in more of a personal affront, than I do the rest of us laying out our often, less than private affairs, here on jw.com.Well, all that says is that maybe that other stuff goes on too much, too. I can't say. All I know is that the letter was to her grandkids, for crying out loud, and neither she nor them had any say in his act of posting it on the board. Hmmm... kids treated in ways where they have no voice. Now, what does that remind me of?...
Knowing your deep feeling about your daughter/mother, family I can understand your thoughts.
You have been blessed, with the ability to react with family member's with little if any restrictions. In fact you indicated that you were not considered 'persona nongrata' by them or the congregation. So your experience is very limited in respects to SL and myself included.
I don't think you have ever had to deal with your father/mother releasing a vidieo to all the world, announceing thier son to be a bald faced 'liar'...SL father did just that.
I have to give credit to SL where due, he left clinging to the WT sleves, in less than a year of seperation, he understands what the WHOLE package of 'truth' really is.."a cult". Damn fine progress in my book, he now see's being a 'good elder' just didn't matter, he was supporting an illusion a farse.
That's all I have to say, but empathy is called for on your part imo. Since you never have walked in his/our shoes, yet anyway.
Who knows as he reads your comments, he may also come to your conclusion, so you know me, better to speak what's really on your mind. Less confusion the next time we speak. Iam a believer.
Hello (uncharacteristically riled) Esmeralda,
Question: If I knew more of the behind the scenes events between Bill and his parents, would that make it okay for him to post private correspondences?
For the record, Bill knew how he would likely be treated by the congregation and his actions there since his 'break' have been a sort of a game, a rub-it-in-their-faces amusement, imo. Part of the price he knew he'd have to pay.
If you don't want to read or comment on his posts, then don't. But why take pot shots at him for seeking support from those of us who have been in this very position and had to struggle through it alone?
Obviously, if you'd calm down something would dawn on you, Essy. The that I DID read his post and I DID comment on it must mean – quess what?!! – I WANTED to read it and I WANTED to comment on it!! He asked us what he thought, didn't he? Even if he didn't ask for comments, he posted it here. I don't know what that means to you, but (considering that this is a discussion board) to me it means it's up for discussion. I offered my view. YOU don't like what I said. Fine. We're discussing. Imagine that!!... discussion on a discussion board!!
I think that his decision to post his correspondance here is just that, his decision.
It wasn't the letter to HIM that I have a problem with. It's the letter *to his kids*. That letter is not HIS. See the difference?
No need to try to embarrass him for your own personal discomfort with the topic.
Embarrass him? Are you kidding? Will somebody help her? Hey, if Bill is embarrassed by what I said, good. He needs to feel just that. And a little shame for posting private mail meant for somebody else's eyes.
And I am very comfortable with the topic, I'll have you know. I've discussed it many times. It's the method of betraying private letters meant for other people that I have an issue with.
I know why I have posted some seriously personal "Diary" kinds of things here. To help people. For the lurkers. From the mail I get, believe me, it's appreciated. I'm sure that many people will be helped knowing that they're not alone in receiving such letters from their parents. That in itself, to me, makes it worth posting.
That's nice, Essy. Wonderful. You go right ahead and post personal information and I'll give you my opinion on those, too. But as long as I'm in it, *this* thread is about how I feel about what *BILL* said and did.
Thanks for your comments.
tj ~ whose views are characteristically against the JW.com mainstream
Will someone help her?
*lol* I don't need any help, thanks. I'm doing just fine :)
I suppose that we were only supposed to address our remarks in this thread to Bill and not comment on each other's posts?
I thought you were hard on him. I'm not the only one apparently. So I said so. I thought that this was a discussion board and we were all supposed to discuss. Imagine that!
I suppose "riled" was the wrong word for me to choose, since I don't let anything that happens here get to me anymore. I guess it just seemed a bit harsh to me in a thread where a person was seeking support.
I wonder how many of her friends from the congregation Bill's mom has shared his previous letters with? I also didn't notice anywhere in her letter where she requested that this be kept between them. I'm sure that if she had, he would have respected that.
In any event, we all understand your position. Thanks for sharing.
As much as is humanly possible, in the short time we've spent getting to know each other, I trust that you know me. Please understand: I have deep admiration for the stand Bill has taken in behalf of abused children. I've spoken of my respect for him many times here. I was one of the very first posters to acknowledge his first post on the old h2o one year ago and I have followed his spiritual awakening with eager interest. I understand where he's coming from and marvel at his progress. But...
His revealing private mailings, especially those of his mother meant for her grandkids, is wrong. I couldn't care less who might be 'helped' by it. If you wrote a heartfelt letter to one of your grandchildren (assuming you have one) -- a letter between YOU and THEM -- would it be okay for their mother to, without your knowledge or consent, go to Kinkos, have thousands of copies made, and then pass them out to total strangers in order to make whatever point or feel good about their treatment of you?
Would that be cool?
That's what Bill did.
Bill, how sad. You have put everything on the line to defend those who have had no protector. Any mother should be proud of your willingness to stand up for what you believe is right. And yet.........you are dealing with JW mentality, with all of its "the Society is right no matter what they do, and to question them is to turn against God himself".
Your letter to her is good. However, it is brutally honest. I can understand that your feelings are raw right now and that you needed to write what you did.
Perhaps, however, you might want to set it aside for a few days and then re-read it and edit it. You need to do what your heart tells you is right, but I think that this first letter was based more on the emotional pain you are feeling than what your heart needs to say.
If, after a couple of days "marinating", the letter still seems to you to be necessary, then send it. Otherwise, edit it until your heart tells you it's good, and that you feel fairly confident that it will accomplish the purpose you intend it to accomplish.
What I garnered from your letter is that you need to stress to your Mom that any cutting off of the relationship will be her decision--not yours. Just don't slam the door in her face while you're trying to assure her that it is open to her.
I am busy right now, so I have not had time to read all the comments between yours and mine. I will only comment on your stupid response to the Zimbardo study. It DID NOT PROVE THAT ONE GROUP WAS CULPABLE. THEY WERE RANDOMLY ASSIGNED. IN THE FUTURE, DON'T WRITE SUCH STUPIDITY. IT MAKES YOU LOOK REAL BAD.
I get where your coming from. We just don't see, eye to eye, on this one. That's ok, we have done so before, and will probably again.
That's why I like you so much, you stand up and a be counted.
I wonder how many of her friends from the congregation Bill's mom has shared his previous letters with?
If Sister Bowen (Bill's mother) shared his letters with others, she'd be wrong. If she asked me my opinion, I'd find a respectful way, but I'd tell her. Even so... her doing something that's wrong in no way justifies him doing wrong. We don't know that she did such a thing anyway, so your point is... uh... how can I say this... IRRELEVANT?
I also didn't notice anywhere in her letter where she requested that this be kept between them. I'm sure that if she had, he would have respected that.
Surely you jest or you DO need serious help, and fast. So, what you're saying is: in the letters Bill's mom writes, she should say something along the lines of, "uh, son, would you please not share these letters with your online friends?" Maybe we can all start doing that in personal mails, emails and phone calls. Just to protect ourselves from the Bills of the world.
Sorry, Essy... you got me shaking my head. The things ex-JWs won't do... or justify.