Evil lying Manipulators OR Captive Duped Slaves Duping Others (or some of both)? (page 5)

OnTheWayOut

Almighty, what you mention could be construed as 'green handshakes,' but I really mention something more direct and more common.

Rarely happens to an elder visiting a hall to give a talk, but every C.O. that visits a hall gets greeted by the 'friends' and many of them directly put money in his hand as they shake it. Many put an envelope in his hand. Some make sure he knows who gave the green handshake, others just think it's so wonderful to have the full-time servant visit and give, thinking that he needs it.

Beyond the C.O., there is no doubt that a D.O. or a Zone Overseer visiting an area gets the green handshakes from the local elders and others that want to please him, kiss up to him, adore him. For a GB member to visit an assembly or convention and give a talk here and there at the local kingdom hall to justify sending him to Hawaii or France, you know many local elders and local members will want to do even more. I cannot imagine that anyone but an older pioneer would even consider less than $100 US in a card.

drew sagan

Many put an envelope in his hand. Some make sure he knows who gave the green handshake, others just think it's so wonderful to have the full-time servant visit and give, thinking that he needs it.

Reminds me of a time when my KH passed a resolution to pay for a Bethel Elder to fly in from NY and give the memorial talk. It was the only time I voted 'no' on a resolution.

Changing subjects, I think that a major component that should not be overlooked is that of self-esteem.

The Watchtower system allows people (specifically older men) the possiblity to gain positions where they are given respect, dignity and value. Any man given such a position whether it is MS, Elder, PO, DO, CO, or important Bethel position has a sort of 'status' that becomes a representation of his own self worth. Men that climb this "corporate ladder" are given a great many social rewards. Many social institutions have this, it is not something unique to JWs. Sometimes these rewards come at a great cost to the individual. I know of two men that spent most of their lives up untill their early 30's slaving for the Watchtower, hoping to get into a good position.

And don't forget, they also get satisfaction by believing they are doing gods will. You cannot subtract this element, although it seems that as ex-jws we sometimes like to think that altruism isn't an important factor.

metatron

Happy Guy, I am trying to be tactful but you don't understand the Watchtower or its finances. I was a Bethelite for many years and members of my family knew (former, deceased) members of the GB on a first name basis, as well as being actual voting members of the Watchtower Society of New York and Pennsylvania.

Yes, they have enormous assets but that is NOT CASH FLOW! I had hoped this subject was finally settled within the 'apostate' community. They are bleeding and that is why:

they sell off Kingdom Halls

they are selling off Assembly Halls

they cut magazines

they cut literature

they dumped Bethelites

Oh, and after I left I got a "B" in College Accounting.

metatron

Gregor

Many years ago I had the opportunity of asking Ray Franz this same basic question. His reply (paraphrasing) was that the GB is some of both but the ELM's are the ones with the clout.

The Almighty Homer

One thing for sure the higher up the ladder you go in this organization the more ass kissing and privileges are bestowed upon you.

I remember when Knorr gave a talk at an Assembly one Sunday afternoon, I sat at the back of the stage as an assistant and I witnessed first hand the brotherly ass kissing

that he got before and after the talk.

You'd think that he was Jesus himself who just spoke.

If I remember correctly at the end of his talk he thanked everyone for all of the brotherly ass kissing.

metatron

Amazing, all this discussion about how rich the Society is but the 'experts' here don't seem to mention the single event that ruined the organization's cash flow.

The voluntary donation arrangement. The utter failure of this plan created a near panic at the highest levels. No matter how much they pumped it in meeting part after meeting part after meeting part, it didn't work.

They had to quickly come up with an excuse to terminate Food service at assemblies because District/Circuit finances were threatened with collapse when people went wild grabbing lunch without putting a dime in the contribution box. I KNOW people who were involved in this mess personally.

Want more? I can go on for quite a while with this topic..... or will we continue with this cash flow rich fiction?

metatron

still wondering

We, formerly R & F members, as has been said before are treated like mushrooms i.e. kept in the dark and fed manure.

Whereas those at the top have a good reason to keep us in the dark. Maintaining their powerbase ABSOLUTLEY depends on it. I see no point in looking to Raymond Franz either for clues. I don’t see him admitting that they all knew it was a fraud as this would clearly reflect on him and the time that he spent as an integral and leading part of this great deception.

Raymond Franz, for all his subsequent good work at attempting to make amends for his part in this great deception, it seems is still reluctant to bear his share of the responsibility and hence as far as I know has NEVER apologised publicly for his gross error in perpetuating the Watchtower

LIE.

Another point, since the WTS shares are not publically traded then the current shareholders (those that attend the annual shareholder meeting) inherited their shares from family members long since dead. Is it likely that many of those that have inherited their shares are no longer JW’s themselves and so why would they take the trouble and expense to travel every year to the shareholders meeting if there was nothing in it for them?

Yes, Evil Lying Malevolent Manipulators. No doubt about it.

metatron

Being an actual shareholder in the WBTS of New York or Pa. is not inheritable, as far as I know. The lawyers took care of that especially in light of what Rutherford did to the previous set of suckers.

As to being duped, believe it or not, we have solid evidence of these Governing Frauds being duped themselves. I have to admit the Bible is right when it sez "deceivers and being deceived". If you read the account about Greenlees getting caught with his hands on a boy, he still spoke about the organization with absolute loyalty. Brother Jackson (deceased) spoke about the Society's chronology in a dismissive fashion,as if it meant nothing. Still, he believed..........

metatron

yesidid

diamondiiz

HappyGuy:

I don't know where you get 50 shareholders. I would have to check more info but to my unserstanding if I remember correctly wts had some 50,000 shares outstanding and Russell had some 47,000 of them and therefore was shown that Russell and wts could be used interchangeably as per Broklyn Eagle vs Russell. At the time Russell also had a holding company where homes and property would go while people who donated were still alive in case they wanted it back and after their deaths the properties were transfered over to wts or became fully owned by the holding company. This holding company had something like 1000 shares outstanding and Russell owned 990 or so of these. Like I said it's been a while since I've done the research so I could be off on some but I know it wasn't 50 original shareholders. I thing it was argued in the Brooklyn Eagle libel suit about donations and shares released as there was something stipulated about getting a share in wts for every $10 donated but the shares were never given out because people never requested these shares thus was assumed the doners never cared for the shares, something to that effect. Since in the beginning Russell owned 90+% of the shares and that was passed onto Rutherford or fell under wts officers upon Russell's death I don't see how there would be many shareholders that would have an actual say in anything other that one or handful of people who would have aquired Russell's share of ownership. If you have some actual documentation please share it with us as to how you come up with 50 shareholders and if there is that many how many shares are there outstanding now????

ps: I donated $250 for KH fund and $250 for www and that's a year for a family of 3. I think we contributed like $20 for assemblies, maybe $50 max for the family for a convention. Maybe others can share their donation amounts but they couldn't squeeze more out of me as I never believed a religion need much cash as God would provide if they needed more :) Wasn't that what Russell said?

Evil lying Manipulators OR Captive Duped Slaves Duping Others (or some of both)?

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