by jonathan dough 189 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Got an hour?
http://odeo.com/episodes/23138569-Nashuva-Friday-Night-Shabbat-Service
Not really. Maybe you could sum it up in a paragraph or two with some citations? If it is so obvious it shouldn't take that long since we're dealing with only a handfull of verses.
BTW, that link is to a Sabbath service incase you are ever curious.
Now then:
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [a] them, [b] "
declares the LORD.
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
If you want to interpret the scripture literally, I think it is self explanatory. And it doesn't say anything about Christ. But look, you Christians are certainly free to participate in the covenant.
Again, I bid you good night and a good journey. I'm bushed and need to go outside and whistle up my cat.
BTW, that link is to a Sabbath service in case you are ever curious.
I saw that. Thank you.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [a] them, [b] "
declares the LORD.
I won't let you get away with this so easily. Surely your Rabbi knows what New Covenant this refers to.
And it doesn't say anything about Christ.
I never claimed it did.
But look, you Christians are certainly free to participate in the covenant.
That's very kind of you, but which one? The Old one your people broke or the New one?
I'm bushed and need to go outside and whistle up my cat.
A cat lover. Then there's still hope for you.
Over and out.
Okay, I've whistled up my cat.
Now, then. If we are going to interpret literally, which I do not like to do: If God didn't want Israel anymore, why draw up a new covenant? And why do you think this new covenant is something in the future?
And as far as asking my rabbi, have you ever tried to ask a rabbi anything? Good luck with that.
I do not know why I came back to this discussion except I am becoming rather fond of you. Only God knows why.
Forgive me if I doze off and start drooling.
Okay, I've whistled up my cat.
Doesn't sound like an American expression. I'll go with Great Britain.
If God didn't want Israel anymore, why draw up a new covenant?
He wanted Israel. That is why He sent Christ to the lost sheep. It might be more correct to say "Because Israel didn't want God anymore as seen by their conduct, he drew up a new covenant." He wanted Israel but he knew, being God, that they as a whole would reject Him. I'm not an expert on the New Covenant. The new covenant spreads the net wider, taking in the Gentiles of the world, and establishing a salvation plan that is not works-based. As Paul the Jewish Pharisee said, and I paraphrase, no one can be justified by works of law, and since the object is salvation it has to be done another way. And the way he chose is by grace, through faith, as a gift, and not by works. Eph 2:9, 10. Through the forgiveness of sin. Out of love.
And why do you think this new covenant is something in the future?
Other references to the covenant in the OT and the NT. I wrote some info here, but it will put you to sleep. I can barely get through it:
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#A
And as far as asking my rabbi, have you ever tried to ask a rabbi anything? Good luck with that.
They strike me as extremely arrogant. Except for Jesus Christ.
I do not know why I came back to this discussion except I am becoming rather fond of you.
That won't last long.
Forgive me if I doze off and start drooling.
Just remember to wipe up.
They strike me as extremely arrogant. Except for Jesus Christ.
Well, it's not that they are really arrogant (except maybe the Orthodox, which I am not a member of) it's just that they are better equipped to handle ritual and ceremony. As I stated before, it is up to each Jew to develop a personal relationship with God. Other Jews are not going to interfere with that relationship.
Jesus was a pharisee. Did you know that?
Doesn't sound like an American expression. I'll go with Great Britain.
Well traveled southern American.
Jesus was a pharisee. Did you know that?
No. How so?
Doesn't sound like an American expression. I'll go with Great Britain.
Well traveled southern American.
The Alabama variety or Argentina?
If one pays a ransom for the release of.......What ever the scales are balanced.Ex.kidnappers ask money for the release of the person that they kidnapped.When the ransom is paid that person is freed.
If Christ paid the ransom for Adam's sin the scales are balanced(not) because man still dies.God said Adam(man) would not die if he did not sin.Adam sinned so he died(not here today)God said he would sacrifice his son to right(pay the ransom) for what Adam lost.So why do we die?But that is another story.
Bob
Well, during the time of Jesus there was a powerplay going on between the priestly groups. The sadducees rejected angels, the resurrection, oral torah, and insisted on strict and literal interpretation of torah (pronounced toe rah) and some other things I cannot recall because of the lateness of the night. The pharisees were more philosophical and ecclectic about it, believing in angels, the resurrection, etc. Plus there was class conflict involved with the sadducees catering more to the ruling class and the pharisees geared towards the common people.
Anyway, the Pharisees won that round. And it is their influence that is still felt in modern Judaism and possibly even Christianity.
To save time and finger fatigue, I've looked up a couple of links. I hope you find them interesting and understand I'm am too tired to do much pecking and pawing at the key board.
http://www.boundlessline.org/2007/06/jesus_the_phari.html
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1912
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1048374,00.html
Let me know what you think.
May you have peace! I would like to take the second part of your comment first, if I may:
The biblical gospel is simple, though not simplistic: Jesus was God, took on human form, lived a perfect life, died as the perfect sacrifice for the sin of everyone who believes, resurrected from the dead, and now reigns over all--any who believe this gospel and call upon Jesus to forgive them will be saved from all their sins, forever.
With one exception, I absolutely agree with everything you've posted here and in fact stated that:
"As a result, because HE has life IN HIMSELF... he CAN... pass on life to ANYONE he wishes. ... The "sum," then, is 0, because Adham's action... which brought death to ALL of earthling man... is cancelled out... in Christ... who will bring LIFE... to all those "wishing" it.
The exception is that my Lord is not God. God... is the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. My Lord is the HOLY One of Israel, the SON and Christ of God. The MOST Holy One of Israel... is HIS God. Matthew 27:46; Psalm 22:1; 31:14 It never ceases to amaze me that some of you still can't "receive" that truth... even though IT IS WRITTEN... in both the OT AND the NT.
Just in case you need additional assistance... ummmm... "comprehending" this particular truth, you should feel free to take a look at an in-depth discussion of the fallacy of the trinity doctrine currently underway here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/183338/1/is-jesus-a-god
Now, to clarify what you were unable to grasp earlier, if indeed you can grasp it even now (Matthew 13:11-15):
ADHAM | CHRIST (JahEshua MischaJah) |
Son of God Half spirit - Father is the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies) Half earthling man - Mother was/is the physical earth, Hagar Gave the life of his progeny in exchange for his self to be able to "know" death (i.e., "bad")... and yet live. Be "like" God. His action was fruitless: although his physical flesh did in fact get to "know" bad (i.e., he died), he has STAYED dead... CONTRARY to the lying promise he received from the Devil ("you will NOT die")... As a result of his sin (i.e., trying to TAKE "authority" that was not GRANTED to him... authority OVER DEATH)... he was given a body... of flesh with ITS blood... hemoglobin... which body, because of the BLOOD in it... did not have life IN it, but instead, had sin and death IN it. So that, as a result, he no longer had LIFE... in himself... and so could NOT pass life on... to ANYONE, including his progeny. ADHAM'S action = death to all mankind
# lives lost by Adham = all (but one, Christ's)
Result of lives lost = all
Adham was "father" to all earthling mankind and surrogate father the seed of the Woman Adham was to carry seed of Woman until it could be "conceived" with God's holy spirit, but SOLD it for own gain (which turned out to be a loss for ALL) Because of a LACK of FAITH, SOME of that seed became rebellious, forgetting their TRUE Father and His love for them, and because of the leadings of their Adversary, began to take on the rebellious ways of their surrogate father, Adham, and thus the fleshly ways of HIS "mother"... the physical realm, earth... which is fleshly and enslaved. And just in case you need to know what happens to that seed: As a result of their rebellion, the seed take on a NEW "father," Satan, the Devil. Because they learn HIS ways (hatred, jealousy, hypocrisy, deceit), they become his "children" and thus God's enemies. They along with the spirits that sinned and did not turn their faces back to Christ when he went and preached to THEM... will be gathered for the God's War... at the place called "HarMaggedon" Please see Revelation 20:7-10 for what happens next for these | Son of God Half spirit - Father is the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies) Half earthling man - [Surrogate] mother was the physical woman, Mary Gave his life in exchange for the life of the progeny of Adham. "Knew" death (i.e., "bad")... and yet lives. Like God. His action was successful: although his physical flesh did in fact get to "know" bad (i.e., he died), he did NOT stay dead... but was raised up and is alive... in FULFILLMENT of the promise he received from God ("you will not see destruction/ the pit") As a result of NOT trying to take "authority" (over death)... but waiting to RECEIVE it from the One who has such authority to grant it (God)... he was given a body... of flesh with GOD's blood... HOLY SPIRIT... which body, because of the BLOOD in it... has LIFE... IN IT. So that, as a result, he has life IN HIMSELF... and thus, CAN pass life on... to ANYONE [he wishes], including Adham's progeny. CHRIST'S action = LIFE to all mankind
# lives purchased by Christ = all
Result of lives [that can be] saved = all Christ will be "eternal father" to all earthling man who put faith in him, particularly the seed of the Woman Christ REPURCHASED that seed FOR God... and "shepherds" (i.e., trains) them... so that he can present that seed BACK to God as having conquered the flesh (i.e., seek God's will... and not their own). Because of FAITH... IN THAT SHEPHERD... SOME of that seed has turned back, REMEMBERED who their TRUE Father is, and... because of the leadings of the Good/Fine Shepherd, began to take on the obedient ways of their surrogate father, Christ, and thus the SPIRIT ways of HIS mother, "Jerusalem (DOUBLE peace) Above... which is FREE. And just in case you need to know what happens to THIS seed: As a result of HIS good works, that FAITHFUL and discreet slave, Christ, has the privilege of "fertilizing" that seed... by means of God's holy spirit which is now in HIM... and which comes THROUGH him... so that the seed become his surrogate "children" and are BORN... AGAIN. After which he returns them to His Father... and thus they become sons... of God. As sons of the MOST Holy One of Israel, God... they eventually become the BRIDE of His Son... Christ. They are, then, NEW Jerusalem... the City of Double Peace (which comes OUT of heaven, from its "mother" the heavenly Jerusalem... "Jerusalem Above")... These inhert the kingdom that was prepared FOR them... from the time they were thrown down (by God, a farmer)... and planted IN the earth... when it was created. That is WHY the earth was created: FOR them. As their inheritance, under Christ |
So, okay, perhaps that wasn't so simple. At least, not the entire jist. But the equation of Christ's life for Adham's is truly simple math (see red, above). My apologies for not being clearer.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
