by PSacramento 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Watkins

    Excellent answer! Makes sense too in that 'grandma' doesn't celebrte birthdays on the 'right' day, so...

    I've been thinking a lot about this - for years, actually. I've come to the conclusion that even tho' some of the 'pagan' influences still exist in most people's celebration of Christmas, the purpose in the early church was to place Christ in the midst of any celebration. They didn't do it with evil intent, but to put Jesus in his rightful place smack in the middle of any and all celebrations or rememberances. So it seems they wanted to overcome the pagan influence with Christ, instead of just 'adopting' the same date to celebrate Jesus' birth, they attempted to overshadow paganism with Christianity. It half-way worked. lol. Jesus isn't only the 'reason for the season' - he's the reason for joy EVERY day too. There really is a problem with thinking that everyone ELSE has evil in their hearts concerning religious thought - depressing way to think and live.

    Anyway, I liked your answer, PS, and think it's easy enough to understand - even for 'grandma'!


  • creativhoney

    lets all be honest. if it were about Jesus, we would strive to find the correct day - like the fact that Easter changes every year>? - Christmas is just a chance to have fun, the end.

  • PSacramento


    I don't think we can find the correct date, if we could, we would, I know I would.

    As it is, regardless of the original purpose and origin of Christmas, it is what WE make of it that counts, just like Paul said in Romans, "whatever you do, do with Christ in your heart".

    Endurance and stamina is crucial, as you know, right honey? ;)


    The pagan traditon or history of anything is irrelevant, I mean, if you look far back enough, everything has a pagan tradition, from baptizims (water purification rites to jewish purification to christian repentance) to wedding bands to nude orgies under the full moon.


  • sacolton

    I already put up my Christmas tree ...

  • sacolton

    Yeah, even neckties have pagan and military origins. Try not wearing a tie to a meeting with that excuse.

  • SixofNine

    You Nazi, Sacramento.

    Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance. If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning. “We are just having fun.”

    Imagine that between 1933-45, the Nazi regime celebrated Adolf Hitler’s birthday – April 20 – as a holiday. Imagine that they named the day, “Hitlerday,” and observed the day with feasting, drunkenness, gift-giving, and various pagan practices. Imagine that on that day, Jews were historically subject to perverse tortures and abuse, and that this continued for centuries.

    Now, imagine that your great-great-great-grandchildren were about to celebrate Hitlerday. April 20 th arrived. They had long forgotten about Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen. They had never heard of gas chambers or death marches. They had purchased champagne and caviar, and were about to begin the party, when someone reminded them of the day’s real history and their ancestors’ agony. Imagine that they initially objected, “We aren’t celebrating the Holocaust; we’re just having a little Hitlerday party.” If you could travel forward in time and meet them; if you could say a few words to them, what would you advise them to do on Hitlerday?

    On December 25, 1941, Julius Streicher, one of the most vicious of Hitler’s assistants, celebrated Christmas by penning the following editorial in his rabidly Antisemitic newspaper, Der Stuermer:

    If one really wants to put an end to the continued prospering of this curse from heaven that is the Jewish blood, there is only one way to do it: to eradicate this people, this Satan’s son, root and branch.

    It was an appropriate thought for the day. This Christmas, how will we celebrate?

  • PSacramento


    I am speachless.

  • SixofNine

    there's plenty more where that came from

    H. As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18 th and 19 th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.” [6] On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.

  • Bystander39

    PS -

    Am I the only one who noticed that under your "My Reply" you may have typed incorrectly?

    people chose to celebrate his death on December 25.

    I think you meant celebrate his birth on December 25.

  • PSacramento

    LMAO !!

    Indeed bystander, that was a typo !
    Good catch.

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