Are Jehovah's Witness men good catches?

by garyneal 77 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  dgp

  Gary Neal, you know I'm a worldly man (yeah, I'm worldly and I'm proud) and you also know I was rejected by a JW woman who claimed she would never marry outside of her faith. I think I sort of understand where you're coming from. So I would like to say that I sort of do not like the way your wife is treating you. Neither do you, I can see that.

  Yep, yep, yep, she's not doing you a favor by staying married to you. You're not below her dignity because you don't happen to believe the things she believes. So, don't let the Society or your wife impose that kind of thinking on you. Don't let them brainwash you.

  This thread is about whether JW men would be "good catches". What's implied is that you're not. Well, I'm not into men, but from reading your posts and by checking what you do to stay married to your wife I can see your wife is the winner here. You and I know that the thought may have crossed your mind that you don't need to be going through all this kind of trouble. Yet, there you are.

  I am not a woman, but I think you will recognize a common sense answer. JW men are reared to believe in a code of behavior that other religions left behind like 500 years ago. Or, it feels like that. They are reared to think that women need to be submitted to them, and not to compromise in their lifestyle. Do you think that makes for a good husband for anyone not in the religion? The obvious answer is no.

  Now, for the women inside of the religion, the problem is different. They are supposed to marry only these guys. They know that. They know they can be picky, and they will be the kings of the home. They need to be good fellows not to abuse their women. The system is in their favor. Or, were you thinking that all Moslem men behave that way for different reasons?

  It's not that JW men are bad in themselves. From what I read here, many born JW men are fine people, PROVIDED they rid themselves of the oppressive mindset. They are not inherently worse or better than we are.

  I read that some girls marry a JW in good standing and find that the guy in particular is not very good. That happens to every wife :-), so I believe these women meant that the difference between who they expected the man to be, and who he really is, is too big. Well, that happens because the criteria to judge how good the man is are mere appearances. The JW legalism does that to people. Unless I get it wrong, if you place so many magazines, are out on field service, do comment in meetings, and obey everything they tell you, then you're a fine fellow. It doesn't matter if you dont' really believe in any of that or if you have your skeletons in your closet; appearances is what matters.

  Your wife, on the other hand, seems a pain in the neck in this particular regard. She knew she was hurting you where it hurt the most. She is aware of how hard you're trying. I believe she's an abusive woman, and this not because she is a JW, but because she's abusive herself. If she's that uncomfortable with the marriage, well, you can ask her why the hell she married you. Maybe she can go back to her faith, only without a scriptural divorce, as the FDS would demand?
• 

  KidKool

  "KidKool:
  
  Well, my wife and I both agreed that my sister-in-laws ex-boyfriend (baby's daddy) was in no way a 'good catch.' Frankly, we could not even understand why she bothered with him to start with.
  
  Still though I could not understand why my wife felt the same way she did concerning a JW man. I wasn't like that at all and of course I was not perfect but I figured that in all fairness, she could've gotten much worse. And yes, I could have gotten much worse also. But then again, I don't see where things were so bad between us."
  
  garyneal: I see your point now. A little background- I've been divorced for many years and have been in a longterm relationship for the past several years, but haven't remarried yet.
  
  My girlfriend (non-jw, but raised christian) has made comments similiar to the ones that your wife has made. Like how great it would be to marry a "good christian" man. I am christian, but don't go to church regularly and neither does she. I'm able to take her comments with a grain of salt, because we're not married. I just say things like "well, why don't you go find one" in a joking manner. I figure she's with me because she wants to be, because we're not married. I also figure there are lots of other fish in the sea for me.
  
  But if I was married, and I have been before, I would probably take the comments more seriously. Like "You went through the steps, signed a marraige certificate, said I am the one, and now you want to talk about how great it would be with someone who is a Jehovah's Witness?!"
  
  Still if you confront her on it, it could make you seem insecure. She's with you. If other aspects of your relationship are going fine, I would try to forget about it. If not, I would probably try to talk to her about the other aspects of the relationship. Because in my experience, women say these kinds of things without thinking all the time.
  
  Hope this helps.
• 

  ESTEE

  She then said that if she could find her ideal man, it would most likely be a Jehovah's Witness man. My wife promptly agreed that such a man would be the ideal man to marry. Of course, I was obviously hurt by that remark since I was not such a man. Now I wonder if she does not compare what her life is now to what her life would've been like if she had married a Jehovah's Witness. I was so upset and hurt by it that I insisted that she and I have a nice long talk about it later that day, which we did. All she kept saying was that I do not understand what it is like to be a Jehovah's Witness man and she could not express what such a man is like.

  Ick, such a sicko desire is all part of the brainwash. If these women want to be co-dependent with a man and a religion, if they want to be told they should do this and must not do that for the rest of their lives ... if they want to be treated like a little child for the rest of their lives ... or if they have to consult their husband before doing any little thing, sure they'd be okay with a jw man. If they like being a submissive mouse with no mind of their own... well, sure, they'd be okay with a jw man.

  But, if these women want some independence and room to exercise their own free will, ... think again.

  Sounds like they have not healed from dubdumb. Lots of old beliefs might be still lodged inside...sad to say.

  ESTEE
• 

  dgp

  I beg to differ with Kid Kool about Gary Neal looking insecure if he confronts the wife. I am not suggesting that he leaves her. I am suggesting that he makes her see what the "logical" end of her nagging can be. "You married me out of your free will. Stop the bashing, or then divorce me".

  I feel that Gary has been hurt. He has been told that he's less than the ideal mate because he happens not to follow the organization, and so he asks the question whether JW men are good at all anyways. That's the wrong approach. Any man can be good or bad, and Gary is certainly a good guy. If she can't count her blessings, and sees him as "bad in the eyes of Jehovah", well, she can act. By the way, does she sleep with him or not?

  Gary, you can also tell her to "wait on Jehovah".
• 

  garyneal

  KidKool: If other aspects of your relationship are going fine, I would try to forget about it. If not, I would probably try to talk to her about the other aspects of the relationship. Because in my experience, women say these kinds of things without thinking all the time.

  Hindsite is always 20-20 and I think I could've handled it a lot differently but I guess at the time I was feeling a bit insecure in our marriage because at times it was fragile (not all because of her doing by the way). As I thought about it later, I think that I could've handled it better by asking saying this to my wife and her sister, "So from my understanding, ideal men are JW men. Well, would not a JW man want a JW woman. If so, are YOU being what a JW man would consider a real JW woman?"

  I think for both of them, if they were honest (and I have no reason to suspect that they would not be), they would have to say no.
• 

  GLTirebiter

  I told my wife and her sister one time that they are not doing any favors to the 'worldly' men by dating them and marrying them if they insist on continuing to be witnesses.

  Amen! Been there, suffered through that.

  The rules they broke to catch their "worldly" man start becoming more important again after the mariage license is signed. When kids come along, it intensifies ("You should go to meetings to set a good example for little Junior. It won't kill you!"). On some level, subconsciously or knowingly, they realize that acting like a good JW girl won't land them a "worldly" man. So they adopt behavior more compatible with the kind of men they're trying to attract.

  GLT

  Added: I'm not saying the JW men are better catches, but they are more likely to be compatible with a Witness woman. With the WT's strong "us vs. them" philosophy, there is too much stress involved being one of "them". Marriage is difficult enough to do well without that added pressure.
• 

  crapola

  Good grief no!
• 

  garyneal

  djp:

  Thank you so much for your support, I really do appreciate it. Going through your posts:

  ...I was rejected by a JW woman who claimed she would never marry outside of her faith.

  She did you a favor, trust me. Now you can find someone who shares your beliefs and more of your outlook in life. I know this is cold comfort for your right now but she did the right thing for both her sake and especially yours.

  Yep, yep, yep, she's not doing you a favor by staying married to you. You're not below her dignity because you don't happen to believe the things she believes. So, don't let the Society or your wife impose that kind of thinking on you. Don't let them brainwash you.

  For years, I was letting them brainwash me because I want to be respected by her and her people (witnesses). I was hoping that I would be able to have a good relationship with them and still keep my Christian beliefs as well. It became apparent to me that as long as I was an 'outsider' that they would never accept me as a real Christian. As you know, JW's are not like Presbyterians, Methodists, or even Catholics in that if I had announced that I was a Baptist, they would be okay with it and still consider me a Christian. At the time, I was even beginning to think that maybe they did have the truth and I fell into a crisis because I found that I was lost at that point.

  Anyway, to make a long story short, I felt that maybe I should become a witness but after researching them I found that at best, they were no better than christendom in spite of their attacks on christendom. At worst they are just wrong and I know that their claim to being the only 'true' religion is just one big fallacy.

  What's implied is that you're not.

  That was the impression I got too and unfortunately I was not feeling very comfortable in my own skin and I wasn't sure about my personal beliefs nor was I sure about my marraige.

  You and I know that the thought may have crossed your mind that you don't need to be going through all this kind of trouble. Yet, there you are.

  Not only did it cross my mind (especially in the low points of our marraige) but I also had my family telling me to get out. During our worst years, I remember actually telling her that I wanted a divorce and later apologizing for it. Not exactly a way to build up a marraige, so there is plenty of blame to go around.

  The JW legalism does that to people. Unless I get it wrong, if you place so many magazines, are out on field service, do comment in meetings, and obey everything they tell you, then you're a fine fellow. It doesn't matter if you dont' really believe in any of that or if you have your skeletons in your closet; appearances is what matters.

  Yep, whitewashing the coffins, cleaning the outsides of the cups. Jesus warned us of people like these when He said the same thing concerning the Phariseah. But as you know, it is found amongst some of the Christians too, especially in a legalistic church. The church I attend is anything but . As I said before, I'd rather go to church with a bunch of 'crazies' who are friendly and love serving the Lord than with a bunch of people who are only about appearances and are concerned about their 'associations.'

  If she's that uncomfortable with the marriage, well, you can ask her why the hell she married you.

  I have asked her that and asked her why she married me when deep down she really wanted a witness. She was going through her 'rebellious' phase when she met me and as she said it, I was "as clean and as moral as a typical witness, but into some of the worldly things like parties, holidays, etc.." During our lowest moments I remember saying that if things did not work out, I hope you find that perfect witness man that you seek.

  "You married me out of your free will. Stop the bashing, or then divorce me"

  I recal how she use to hold the whole "I am going to leave you if you don't support me in this" thing over my head. One day, I finally got fed up with it and finally told her, "If you life is that miserable because of me, bye!" I never heard her utter those words to me since.

  I feel that Gary has been hurt. He has been told that he's less than the ideal mate because he happens not to follow the organization, and so he asks the question whether JW men are good at all anyways.

  Oh I was hurt when she said that, but as I said to KidKool, I was a bit insecure about our marraige and a little less sure of myself and my beliefs. Five years of WT theology had that affect on my beliefs. Thank God for the Internet.

  Thanks again for your kind words of support. Other than you ex-girlfriend, are you still involved in any way with the witnesses?
• 

  dgp

  Gary, the only way I am involved with witnesses these days is the fact that I read and post in this forum. Like you, probably, I didn't know much about the society, and my reading has shown me to what extent lives are being destroyed. Like the life of the woman who brought me here, you know? I can see that her life has been ruined, and more misery will come if she sticks to what she has been doing so far. She couldn't choose, as a born in. I have the impression that her father is an overpowering bastard. Without the society, I don't know how far this extremely intelligent woman would be. With the society... I don't want to say all the pain she has gone through, thinking that is the right thing to do, while it has only been submitting herself to a lot of pain for the sake of what a group of men say.

  I am here because I learn more about the society. If you can imagine this, I am getting my ammo. Should any relative or friend of mine be involved with this society, I will have plenty of ways to prove the society wrong.

  Also, I will go on with my life, because there is nothing else I can do. But, should this woman cry for help, I will also have plenty of information to show her that she needs to leave. When I first got involved I thought that was what she wanted.
• 

  garyneal

  dgp:

  The woman who brought you here, is she someone who is trying to fade?

  I guess the best thing you can do for her is be a friend because her life is difficult indeed. I have an old friend who was a witness when I first met her. She was not a born in but her father accepted the 'truth' when she was at a young age. She believed in the religion for a long time that I've known her but when I inquired about her religion lately, she was out and was living with a former pioneer. She suggested that I check out freemind.org (can you believe that?!). But, of course, I was already checking that site, and others, out.

  I guess my point is, we just need to be there for our dub friends and loved ones and hopefully, they will come out.

  Sounds like your friend is captive to a concept, like my wife. I feel that my wife, if she could, would not live the witness life. However she feels like it is the only way to everlasting life.

  You can check out my youtube channel where I linked a lot of videos concerning the witnesses as my favorites. The movie, Witnesses of Jehovah, is my favorite. A pastor of the church I have been attending gave me a book called, The Spanking Room: A Child's Eye view of the Jehovah's Witnesses. That book was a bit extreme but the JW women are taking their kids to the ladies room to spank them. My wife does this and that is partly why my child would rather go to church with me instead.

  If you are a Christian, Walter Martin is excellent on his research on the JW's. I have his book, Jehovah of the Watchtower but it is dated though. Of course, I also have Raymond Franz's book, Crisis of Conscious.