Those Whose Faith is in the Bible as the Word of God..

by AGuest 46 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  PSacramento

  BTS,

  I tend to agree with your view, I think that the message of the NT is inspired by God and that the writers did their best to put that message on papryus, as it were.

  Is it error proof and all to be take literal? No, especially the OT, Jesus made strong comments on the scripes and teachers of his time and their LACK of understanding.

  Aguest,

  Yes, it does seem that the light gets brighter in many things, of course the difference is that science speculates and is honest in what they don't know and are guessing.
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  BurnTheShips

  I'm sorry, but what you are suggesting cannot be (an may you have peace, as well!). IF they were "borne along by the Holy Spirit," THAT One told them what to write... and they would have had no "perspective." I am telling you the truth. So, I have to say that I d on't think, by this statement, that you understand what it means to be "moved" by the Spirit. It is not an abstract thing, but literally thing. IF they were "moved" by the Spirit... and thus "inspired,"... they were IN SPIRIT. That is what "inspired" means (well, what it meant at the time. Language "evolution" has done a number on that, though...).

  Aguest, Read my PS above. When it comes to what is needed for our salvation, God inspired Scripture to contain the message we needed.

  Now, what difference does 6 or 8 days to the transfiguration make?

  What about how many sons Nebuchadnezzar had?

  Whether or not Judas hanged himself or fell off a cliff?

  The exact date of Jesus' birth or his stature and complexion?

  Do any of these things have any bearing on what we need to know to accept Jesus as our Lord and be saved?

  No, they do not. We can quibble over them (which is great entertainment in itself), but they make no difference.

  However, in those things that do have bearing, the Christian message, Scripture is clear.

  Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.

  BTS
• 

  PSacramento

  BTS,

  I totally agree, HOWEVER, the issue is those that insist on taking it literally to the point of being "ok" with genocide and maleviolence.

  We have seen to much of that being perverted by the few.

  The inspired writers of the bible were just that, inspired, not error proof or infalliable.

  I mean, John dosn't even mention a last supper per say, certainly not a "eucharist".

  Luke makes it clear that Judas was present at the last supper "bread and wine partaking" but many still say he wasn't ( JW's for example), even though there is no mentionof him leaving BEFORE the last supper took place.

  The message of the NT is one thing, the infalliableness of thr writers is another.
• 

  JosephMalik

  I mean, John dosn't even mention a last supper per say, certainly not a "eucharist".

  PSacramento,

  I explained that there was no problem with the 6 and 8 days because the writers were measuring the time from a statement made about tasting death to two separate events that were days apart. One the trip to the mountain and the other the time of the transfiguration that took place on this mountain after 2 days of prayer. So we can see the variation in Luke that added to our knowledge. But your comment above on the last supper is also very telling. Why? Because from such accounts as these we can see something that we see on here every day. What we do here is to comment on others writing and elaborate on them. Well the writers of the Gospel and the apostle Paul for that matter in 1Cor when he answered their letter worked that way as well. This is why John did not comment on the last supper or the Eucharist. Since the event was adequately covered by the others John simply introduced the event so we know where he was in time and started his comments on what happened after this meal. In fact he added almost five full chapters (not verses but chapters) of things that happened that the others missed on that very night and event. We should know how this is done since we do that here every day. If we think like an author that is working with other peoples work and improving the message than we can grasp this. Putting the verses side by side then reveals how they provided clarification and additional information that gave us a more complete picture of what took place. When the texts are examined this way on our Lords suffering and death we learn that the events took days not hours and our Lord was kept in custody for some six days during passover and not the few hours that most teach. You can see this at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/ch9notes.txt With such good information that somehow managed to survive the ravages of time and perhaps a scribe or two that was weary and working in poor light it is a wonder that we have any of this at all.

  Joseph
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  AGuest

  Do any of these things have any bearing on what we need to know to accept Jesus as our Lord and be saved?

  No... and that is the point. It is NOT the "written" word that we need to KNOW... but THE Word of God.

  "THIS means everlasting life: their knowing YOU, the TRUE God... AND the One whom YOU... sent forth."

  It is these... and ONLY these that we need to know. We MUST know the Holy One of Israel, the One who is the Holy Spirit and the ONLY Word of God, CHRIST, in order the know... the MOST Holy One of Israel. It is him.. and ONLY him... that we need to accept. HE... is the ONLY one... thing... person... that can save us.

  Now, I am off to care for my sick (flu, ewww!) husband.

  Peace to you all!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  JosephMalik

  It is these... and ONLY these that we need to know.

  Aguest,

  Most on here have done that a long time ago. But they do not hear voices like you and do not have knowledge and memory improvements imparted to them or tongues of fire over their head. They got to know the Father and the Son though the writing of others that did. It is a wonderful thing that you have another way that does not require such texts but that is just your circumstance. Try some hot tea with honey and lemon.

  Joseph
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  AGuest

  they do not hear voices like you

  Yes, I understand that, dear JoeM... and peace to you!

  and do not have knowledge and memory improvements imparted to them

  And why is that? The first is a gift of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:8)... and the second one of the things the Spirit is supposed to do (John 14:25)... which Spirit you and such ones claim to have received, yes? By means of an anointing? I mean, that is HOW they are "christians," isn't it?

  or tongues of fire over their head.

  I don't think any experienced that particular event other than those present at the outpouring on Pentecost 30 CE. At least, I have neither heard... nor read... of any others. It did not occur with Paul. Or Barnabas. Or Timothy. Or???

  They got to know the Father and the Son though the writing of others that did.

  But that is not knowing, dear JoeM. That is knowing OF... or knowing ABOUT... or "taking in knowledge of." If I KNOW you... and then I told someone else about you... THEY don't know you. They only know OF you...

  It is a wonderful thing that you have another way that does not require such texts but that is just your circumstance.

  It IS a wonderful thing! SO wonderful! GOOD news!! How, then, can I keep it to myself, when I KNOW it can be had by others, as well? Wouldn't that be UNLOVING of me? It would be like me having formerly been deaf in the FLESH... then One comes along and opens my ears... and I go out and see that there are others who are deaf in the flesh... yet, I don't tell them a THING about the One who allowed ME to hear! Where is the LOVE in that? Where... is God and CHRIST?

  Dear JoeM... I am OBLIGATED to speak about these things. To tell you about them. I OWE it to you... and all others... as a result of my DEBT... of love... TO you. Now, if those deaf folks I run into don't WANT to hear... or don't believe that I CAN hear... or don't believe that the One I SAY opened my ears did so... what can I do? Should I just stop telling about it? Should I say, "Well, the folks in THIS town don't want to hear about it"? Yes, that is what I should do... and did. With the WTBTS.

  Now, I have been sent to another "town"... this one... apparently because there ARE some who are/were deaf... and want(ed) to hear. Should I leave because MOST in the town can't "receive" my GOOD news... or the Spirit that sent me with it? John 14:17 Or should I continue to speak, in the event maybe even one or two are benefitted? You know the answer. And I shall stay here until the SPIRIT tells me it is time to move on.

  I know you understand these things, JoeM, for the Spirit says to ME... that although you lack faith [the size of a mustard seed]... you are not completely without faith. Problem is... you're not asking HIM... to help you out... where you NEED faith. I exhort... and urge... you: ASK!!

  In the meantime, I bid you peace.

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA, who doesn't take lemon with her tea. Hot OR iced...