is jesus a god?

by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EverAStudent
    EverAStudent

    aguest wrote:

    "3) I will be a god (Ummmm… no, I do not automatically include you in this truth; however, yes, there are those who fit this description) – Psalm 82:6"

    This I find to be a truly unnerving, if not frightening, assertion. That you feel you will be a god with the sinful and ungodly qualities sarcastically applied to the prophets (the "gods") in Psalm 82:1-8 should cause you to go back and beg the Lord God with all your might not to become like those so described:

    • v.2 - unjust, gives favors to the wicked
    • v.5 - lacks understanding, walks in darkness, unstable
    • v.7 - will die like all other men
    • v.8 - will be judged by the real God after they die

    That you have heard a voice or seen a revelation that says this will be your fate is frightening beyond belief.

  • Lillith26
    Lillith26

    Shelby, I have been reading this thread and keeping up to date with it since it started, I held back from commenting untill I read this...

    As I have stated before, ALL religions contain SOME truth. Because they are set up to “attract” the children of Light… whose primary existence in THIS world… is spent in search OF… the Truth. John 14:6

    Jesus answered Thomas- "I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one comes to the father except through me."

    # This passage makes more sense to me when followed by 14:7....

    "If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

    #How do you get to know someone? you talk to them. You can learn about someone by reading a book about them, but you dont 'know' them untill you have spoken to them in person, and had time to 'get to know them'. Otherwise, how do you know what you are reading is the truth?

    I get it . (I kept my copy of the NIV just in case and for that 1% chance that I may have been be wronge- how big is a mustard seed?)

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace! I am bit tired right now and I may speak out of line. If I do... I must ask your forgiveness in advance. Now, then:

    The "audience" was not the prophets, but Israel. How do we know? I will explain it to you the same way my Lord explained it to me:

    1. First, who is the Father speaking TO? To know that, you have to look at Psalm 82:1:

    "God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the "gods."

    Because it is from that point… that the MOST Holy One of Israel begins to speak TO such “gods”.

    2. What is the “great assembly” mentioned here? Given Job 1:6 and 2:1, some might say this refers to Satan and the other spirit beings that came and presented themselves before the Most High God. But it is not. Hebrews 12:23 tells us who it is:

    “To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect…”

    3. Because WHO judges the BODY of Christ? Some will say the Apostles, but that is an error. The Apostles judge… the 12 tribes of Israel. The Body of Christ, however, which includes 144,000 from among the sons of Abraham AND a great crowd out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people… is judged by NO ONE… EXCEPT the MOST Holy One of Israel… JAH of Armies… who is the Judge… of ALL. Because THEY… are in union with Christ… and thus have NO condemnation. Romans 8:1

    4. Now, look at Psalm 82:6, which states:

    “I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'”

    Who are these “gods” that are also SONS of the MOST High? Again, given various Bible translations, some might say this again refers to Satan and the other spirit beings that came and presented themselves before the Most High God. Job 1:6; 2:1 But that can that BE? No, it cannot. Why? Two (2) reasons:

    First, God has never called any angel His son:

    “For to what angel did God ever say, ‘Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee’? Or again, ‘I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son’?”

    And second, at the time the Psalm was writtenGod only had TWO sons: Christ (his only-begotten son [by Jerusalem Above] – John 3:16)… and Adam (his son by [the earth] – Luke 3:38). Yet, the verse says, “You ARE gods; you ARE all sons of the Most High.” It does not say “You will BE gods; you will BE sons of the Most High.” Given that the Most Holy One of Israel HAD NO OTHER SONS, it couldn’t be the other spirit beings.

    But… He did have other SEED. And it is that SEED that He is referring to. They are the seed of the Woman… Jerusalem Above… who He was to fertilized with His holy spirit… so that they would be CONCEIVED… as His sons:

    “… because thosewho are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, ‘Abba, Father.’ The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.” Romans 8:14-22; Revelation 12:1, 2

    (By the way, the “12 stars” the crown the head of the Woman is NOT as the WTBTS speculate: “The number 12 is associated with completeness in an organizational setting. Hence, these 12 stars seem to indicate that she is an organizational arrangement in heaven, just as ancient Jerusalem was on earth. Jerusalem Above is JHVH’s universal organization of spirit creatures that acts as his wife, both in serving him and in producing offspring.” This is a LIE. Jerusalem Above is the free-wife of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies… with which He conceived a male child, Christ. She is the spirit realm. The 12 stars represent ISRAEL… the REST of her “children” – like a “Mother’s Day” ring of sorts – Revelation 12:17.)

    Thus, the “gods” who are also SONS of Godare those who areledby God’s Spirit… the HOLY Spirit… Christ:

    “The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. … He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. … When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. … I am the gate for the sheep. … I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me…” John 10:2-4, 7, 14

    “Now, the Lordis the Spirit…” 2 Corinthians 3:17

    Why did the Most High say to such ones that they WERE gods… and they WERE His sons? Because He KNEW… that His PURPOSE would come to fruition. He KNEW that even though their conception could not take place in the SPIRIT realm… because of the ENEMIES such seed had THERE… which is WHY they were SOWN IN THE PHYSICAL REALM… they WOULD be conceived. In due time. The Woman WOULD give birth… and a nation (made up of the sons of God)… WOULD be born… in ONE day.

    In the MEANTIME… that seed… had to come through Israel. And it was ISRAEL… in the FLESH… that judged with injustice, showed partiality to the evildoers, forgot the lowly, the fatherless child, the afflicted, and the poor. And it was against Israel and their UNJUST ways… that the prophets were SENT. But the prophets were never judges in Israel, dear EverAStudent. Ever. Israel HAD judges (i.e., Deborah, Shagmar, Othniel, Tola, Jair, Elon, Abdon, Manoah, Samson, etc.). But these pretty much did their days of judging and then died. Even so, the “crime” of the prophets was not judging; their “crime” was false prophesying.

    That you have heard a voice or seen a revelation that says this will be your fate is frightening beyond belief.

    That was the fate of my forefathers, dear EverAStudent. Those of fleshly Israel who were SUPPOSED to "get it"... and NOT use the Old Covenant to justify conduct of this type (judging with injustice, being partial, showing favor to the wicked, forgot the afflicted, orphaned, and poor), so as to warrant judgment (which judging has been granted to the Apostles). It includes the Jewish scribes and Pharisees... and other Israelites... who did not embrace Christ. Those folks were rejected as God's nation, initially, to make way for people that DID accept Christ, those of Israel AND of the nations... who would, as a result, have the Law written on their hearts. But because Christ gave his life for them FIRST... they will still be saved, all of them. They just won't rule with him. (Romans 11:25-32).

    I am joined to Christ by means of a NEW Covenant... so that I am not counted in with these. But BOTH groups are... sons of God. Either by means of the flesh (i.e., fleshly Israel)... or by means of a promise (i.e., spiritual Israel, which includes 144,000 from among fleshly Israel).

    I hope this helps, and I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    The GREATEST of love and peace to you... and YES, I can tell by your comments! I am SO glad!!

    May the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, grant you ears to hear my Lord, the SPIRIT... and the Bride as they say to YOU, "COME! Take life's water... the holy spirit of God, that is His blood and life force... and which flows out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, my Lord... FREE!" And may such holy spirit be granted to you... and to your entire household! And may He grant it to YOU... and indeed your entire household... through His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel, who is my Lord and Master, and the Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... to have seats of "favor" at the table of my Lord, in his kingdom... to time indefinite!

    I am YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,

    SA

    Praise JAH, you people! Let every living, breathing thing... let it praise JAH!

  • EverAStudent
    EverAStudent

    Just to be clear:

    Psalm 82 is written about those who rule Israel (that includes kings, judges, priests, and certainly prophets), which is just what verse 1 prominantly states--"the rulers."

    • Many judges were prophets.
    • The first three kings were prophets.
    • Some ruilers / leaders were prophets (e.g. Moses, Daniel, Nehamiah, Ezra, etc.).
    • All those who rule Israel are called "gods" in the Psalm, because they exercise the rule of Israel as stewards of God and His Law.

    Sadly the rulers, "gods," for the most part acted unrighteously. These gods were unjust (verse 2), partial toward wicked people (verse 2), lacked understanding (verse 5), walked in darkness (verse 5), were unstable (verse 5), and would someday die so as to be judged by God like all other rulers / princes on earth (verse 7).

    If one receives a prophecy that in the future they are to be classed with the wicked rulers of Psalm 82 it is a thing to be feared.

    Blessings.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    stoopid formatting. Will try again...

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Psalm 82 is written about those who rule Israel (that includes kings, judges, priests, and certainly prophets), which is just what verse 1 prominantly states--"the rulers."

    Yes, certain Bible versions (i.e., NLT and NASB) do use that particular translation for the Hebrew word "'elohiym" (Strong's H430). Most, however, including the Hebrew Names, use "gods." Quite possibly because:

    1. The word means "gods" as well as rulers/judges; and

    2. It is translated as "gods" in the verse in question, Psalm 82:6

    I didn't rely on a the Bible verse, however, but on what my Lord TOLD me about the Bible verse. I heard HIM... and I put FAITH in what I heard.

    · Many judges were prophets.

    · The first three kings were prophets.

    · Some ruilers / leaders were prophets (e.g. Moses, Daniel, Nehamiah, Ezra, etc.).

    · All those who rule Israel are called "gods" in the Psalm, because they exercise the rule of Israel as stewards of God and His Law.

    Sadly the rulers, "gods," for the most part acted unrighteously. These gods were unjust (verse 2), partial toward wicked people (verse 2), lacked understanding (verse 5), walked in darkness (verse 5), were unstable (verse 5), and would someday die so as to be judged by God like all other rulers / princes on earth (verse 7).

    First, my mistake: I thought you were referring ONLY to the prophets who were ONLY prophets... and false prophets at that. The MOST Holy One of Israel certainly wasn't speaking to any of HIS prophets, for none of them judged unjustly or were partial toward the wicked. THEY were the ones SENT to those who judged unjustly... and were partial to the wicked. And not all of the rulers/kings of Israel/Judah ruled unjustly or partially.

    But, second, none of that matters, for my Lord himself tells who the Most Holy One of Israel was speaking about:

    "Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" John 10:34-36

    Now, the word of God (actually, the Word of God)... did not come to just the rulers. He came to the ENTIRE nation. And thus, the word of my Lord is that the ENTIRE nation was deemed "guilty" of these things:

    "Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins. For day after day they seek me out; they seem eager to know my ways, as if they were a nation that does what is right and has not forsaken the commands of its God. They ask me for just decisions and seem eager for God to come near them. 'Why have we fasted,' they say, 'and you have not seen it? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you have not noticed?' "Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit all your workers. Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife, and in striking each other with wicked fists. You cannot fast as you do today and expect your voice to be heard on high. Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for a man to humble himself? Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed and for lying on sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the Lord? "Isnot this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-- when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?” Isaiah 58:1-7

    “Surely the arm of [JHVH] is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear. For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt. Your lips have spoken lies, and your tongue mutters wicked things. No one calls for justice; no one pleads his case with integrity. They rely on empty arguments and speak lies; they conceive trouble and give birth to evil. They hatch the eggs of vipers and spin a spider's web. Whoever eats their eggs will die, and when one is broken, an adder is hatched. Their cobwebs are useless for clothing; they cannot cover themselves with what they make. Their deeds are evil deeds, and acts of violence are in their hands. Their feet rush into sin; they are swift to shed innocent blood. Their thoughts are evil thoughts; ruin and destruction mark their ways. The way of peace they do not know; there is no justice in their paths. They have turned them into crooked roads; no one who walks in them will know peace. So justice is far from us, and righteousness does not reach us. We look for light, but all is darkness; for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows. Like the blind we grope along the wall, feeling our way like men without eyes. At midday we stumble as if it were twilight; among the strong, we are like the dead. We all growl like bears; we moan mournfully like doves. We look for justice, but find none; for deliverance, but it is far away. For our offenses are many in your sight, and our sins testify against us. Our offenses are ever with us, and we acknowledge our iniquities: rebellion and treachery against the Lord, turning our backs on our God, fomenting oppression and revolt, uttering lies our hearts have conceived. So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance; truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter. Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey. The Lord looked and was displeased that there was no justice. He saw that there was no one, he was appalled that there was no one to intervene; so his own arm worked salvation for him, and his own righteousness sustained him.” Isaiah 59:1-16

    If one receives a prophecy that in the future they are to be classed with the wicked rulers of Psalm 82 it is a thing to be feared

    First, perfect love casts fear... outside. I have not fear, dear one. Second, I think perhaps you should go back and maybe read the entire thread, ... and not just Javig's last couple/few posts. NO ONE here said they received the prophecy of Psalm 82:6. The verse was used to show that there are those that even the MOST Holy One of Israel calls "gods." Because dear Javig does not believe there are any "gods" (other than false gods - i.e., idols). He doesn't believe that Satan is a god... or that there are those "called gods." Even though the Bible says there are. And so, Psalm 82:6 was used to SHOW HIM that he is in error in his thinking.

    Although some believe that the term "god" refers ONLY to idols and such, it actually has several definitions, including one that is an immortal. Thus, spirit beings are gods. Because they, majorily, are immortal (although some have been denied their immortality by being cut off from the Tree of Life, from which all immortals must "eat" - Psalm 78:25).

    In closing, I have to say that it could be that you have jumped to the wrong conclusion about the entire subject, dear EverAStudent... and so perhaps not only is your understanding inaccurate, but your "righteous" indignation misplaced. I'm just sayin'...

    My peace remains.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    Sorry. IMO the correct answer is No.

    The Oracle

  • javig
    javig

    to aguest:

    BUT… if I AM bothering you,...not at all ...

    I SINCERELY apologize...i accept your apology, it would be ungodly for to refuse, but I must ask why are you apologizing for? I need an offense in order to forgive you or accept your apology. Forgiveness is a two way street not one.

    Please know that henceforth I will not address you at ALL, if that is what you truly wish…I did not said that I clearly stated I will be silence to let others prove your errors…here let me repeat myself…Let everybody in here be witness of your gospel, let them tell you, and please listen for once, you are wrong or at least give yourself the benefit of the doubt...in the mean time let me be....

    But, YOU must make up YOUR mind, as my time is growing very short…I made up my mind. I will be silence regarding the subjects we have shared in the past and I don’t know when and what I will bring next time I post something. In the mean time let the witnesses (those watching and reading our discussions) in here correct you and please have an open mind. You should make up your mind regarding your preexistence subject to tell or not…and in case you decide to tell… I promise you this… I will not use scriptures to correct you or to disagree. Like I said before with something else…honestly I don’t even know with what at this moment…

    From now until then… and then and then ...later

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    ...

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