Is your question meant as an attempt to dismiss my point?Actually, what I have found is those who leave the JW's do not examine their current beliefs with the same set of critical eyes.
Judge Dread
I remember thinking 'why would I want anyone to change from being in the world to a JW?'
by jambon1 41 Replies latest jw friends
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Judge Dread
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leavingwt
The recruitment process involves deception. If a curious/newly interested person had ALL of the facts, they indeed wouldn't want to join.
The JW doesn't knock on the door and hand them a copy of the Flock book, and then suggest that the householder interview one dozen ex-members.
Steve Hassan covers this subject pretty well in his books. People don't join cults, they're recruited into them.
At the time of the committment (baptism), the new person truly believes that being a JW is the ONLY way to avoid having their throat slit by Jesus Christ, at Armageddon, just around the corner.
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Judge Dread
The recruitment process involves deception. If a curious/newly interested person had ALL of the facts, they indeed wouldn't want to join.
So then, the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force qualify.
When I went for my physical, the soldier in charge told us that to the recruitment office we were "just a number" and they would tell us anything just to get us to "sign on the dotted line".
Judge Dread
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carla
So then, the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force qualify.-- That is absurd. The military does not hide the fact that bootcamp is damn hard, it doesn't hide the fact the food might not be like dear old mom's, it does not hide the fact that you will get yelled at, you might even get your butt kicked by someone, they do not hide the fact that you may go to war. You would have to be moron not to realize what the military is before signing up. Proud mom of one of the fewer, prouder, female Marine (now retired).
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jamiebowers
Jambon, your experience sounds similar to mine...I felt jealous of "worldly" people, because they seemed s free and easy.
DanielP, I think you see things with a wicked fine clarity.
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Judge Dread
Yes, I do so quite often. Almost continually, in fact, since I'm always on a search for meaning.
Jamie, someone who 'sees things with a wicked fine clarity' does not 'almost continually' search their current beliefs 'for meaning'.
While we should examine our beliefs occasionally, to search them continually implies that, in fact, we are NOT very clear about our beliefs.
Now DanielP's words quoted above imply that he does not see anything 'with a wicked fine clarity', EXCEPT that he is NOT really sure, which is why he is 'always on a search for meaning'. On that point, he is clear.
Judge Dread
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Judge Dread
The military does not hide the fact that bootcamp is damn hard, it doesn't hide the fact the food might not be like dear old mom's, it does not hide the fact that you will get yelled at, you might even get your butt kicked by someone, they do not hide the fact that you may go to war.
Carla, I agree with you, but the issue is, what DO they hide?
leavingwt said if people had ALL the facts they wouldn't want to join the JWs. First of all, no one can say that, because not "everyone" would refuse to join.
If the military disclosed ALL the facts of being "in", some people who were thinking of joining, would not.
After serving my country in a certain "capacity" I know this to be true, and so should you.
By the way, just so you don't call me some kind of "commie", I commend your patriotism.
Judge Dread
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daniel-p
Actually, what I have found is those who leave the JW's do not examine their current beliefs with the same set of critical eyes.
Judge Dread
I think most ex-JWs do examine and re-examine their beliefs because they don't want to be decieved again. I also think JW-sympathizers try to make it seem like ex-JWs are hypocrites in order to deflect their own intellectual dishonesty.
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daniel-p
Jamie, someone who 'sees things with a wicked fine clarity' does not 'almost continually' search their current beliefs 'for meaning'.
While we should examine our beliefs occasionally, to search them continually implies that, in fact, we are NOT very clear about our beliefs.
Now DanielP's words quoted above imply that he does not see anything 'with a wicked fine clarity', EXCEPT that he is NOT really sure, which is why he is 'always on a search for meaning'. On that point, he is clear.
Judge Dread
1. I never meant to be clear on anything but that in the first place.
2. Does someone inherently hold the high ground if they're firm in their belief? If so, why?
3. The courage of ones' convictions can so easily be the cowardice of ones' mutability.
4. Would you rather have questions you can't answer or answers you can't question?
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Judge Dread
1. Okay.
2. No one said anything about low ground or high ground. If someone is firm in their belief, they are firm in their belief. If someone is not, they are not.
3. True, but who is to say when that is the case?
4. I have no problem saying "I don't know", which is more than I can say for many ex-JW's. There are some answers, when questioned, can make you look like a fool.
Now, from my lurking for a few years, I've noticed that you, daniel-p, like to challenge people on their beliefs, but YOU do not like to be challenged.
Maybe a sign of extreme insecurity?
Or maybe a sign of that word you like to throw around, cowardice?
Judge Dread