by paul from cleveland 46 Replies latest watchtower bible
Hello Paul. As you can see from all the stupid and immature response to your question, this really isn't the type of site to try to have any intellectual or serious conversation. This site is mainly for bitter sarcastic ex-jws who spend all their time bashing the watchtower instead having real conversations.
And you are here why, exactly?
In Cleveland
Under Lake Erie
In a Salt Mine
Playing Bagpipes
While swinging a snake
NAKED
OR........................................................
He never really existed to begin with
When you think you are collecting "stupid and immature" (sic) replies, question your question.
By definition, a narrative of origins has to end up in the "reality" it was designed to explain in the first place. From this angle, "Adam" had to die because we do -- not the other way around. He had to get knowledge because we know. And so on. Any "if"-bifurcation artificially plugged into the story course ends in nonsense because the story has only one possible ending: reality as the author, storyteller, readers, hearers know it.
Even the later Jewish and Christian interpretations of the Eden tale as "temptation," "sin," "fall" etc. were generally not as shallow as to construe it as an "accident". For instance, to Paul the first, earthly, fleshly, dustly, "sinful" Man (Adam), was a necessary "first step" to the Second, heavenly, spiritual Adam (Christ: compare 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 5). This is closer to an evolutionary pattern (in the metaphysical, not biological field) than to a restoration after an unfortunate loss (as per the WT interpretation).
Bluegrass has had an excellent opportunity to answer a serious question and demonstrate his faith. What does he do? Slag everyone else off.
In order to answer that question you have to believe in the creations story (7 days to create the earth) and you have to believe that Adam and Eve were real people that existed 6000 years ago.
As science has established that mankind is a lot older than that.....flaw one.
I for one do not believe that Adam was a literal person - I rather believe that he signifies "the fallen flesh", on the opposite you have Christ "the spiritual man" - therefore Adam is right here - walking around today in each and every single one of us.
(Too deep Blue Grass)
Louise - of the SWEET class (I'll leave the bitterness to BG)
LouBelle
Actually the "Adam and Eve" story (Genesis 2:4b--3) is quite independent from the "7 days" story (1--2:4a) since the whole "creation" is told again, in a very different way (and incompatible at "literal" level). The first Genesis story ends up with mankind as it is (gender difference, sex and procreation included) without any hint of "fall" or "sin".
In the second story, mankind as it is (including sex and procreation) only appears as a result of the curse and eviction from Eden (which is not exactly a "fall" either).
I for one do not believe that Adam was a literal person - I rather believe that he signifies "the fallen flesh", on the opposite you have Christ "the spiritual man" - therefore Adam is right here - walking around today in each and every single one of us.
Aside from the word "fallen," I couldn't agree more: this is what the Hebrew-speaking reader immediately understands with the word 'adam -- which is the most common noun for "man," "human" and "mankind".
In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul qualifies the "first man" as psukhikos, from psukhè (what Adam became when he was created, not by disobedience; most translations render it as "natural"), and opposes that to the Second Adam who is pneumatikos, "spiritual". This is an access to a new stage of humanity -- not restoration of a lost one.
Silly questions get silly responses.
Does anyone really believe that question was posed as a matter of 'serious discussion' here? Anyone who has observed this board knows that most here don't think the parable of Adam and Eve to be literal. But if he really does, then a question framed along a more specific nature might have avoided the responses we saw.
That said - assuming the author to be serious here : Adam and Eve would be patriarchial heads of billions of people. God would never have been able to prove what seems to be the consumate lesson of the Book - that man needs God, his codes of ethics [no matter how arbitrarily applied], and that a perfect man needed to die to get paradise back.
Seems to me it would have been far easier to just zap the sinners and make sure the story got told to all the future men and women God made in their stead. All the needed lessons would be taught to all the future generations, and God could just zap anyone who got out of line, futher showing that he could keep them in line with a little violence here and there. No need for tens of billions to live and die, create thousands of religions that all claim an answer than never comes, and writing and interpreting a book from ancient languages to explain it to them.
Adam would be gone in answer to the question. But lots of nice naked followers of the zapping God would be here.
Jeff
No, this is seriously a question that I have. It was directed toward those that still believe the Bible is God's word. Many here still do believe that but contend that the bible only offers a heavenly hope. If that's true, it raises questions in my mind about what God's original purpose was for the earth. If he didn't want us here, why did he create us here in the first place. Was death part of his original plan? Did God change his plan for the earth because of Adam's sin?
Of course I knew I'd get a lot of silly answers. Some are hilarious. (especially the video) That doesn't mean I'm still not waiting for an answer that makes sense to me.
I don't think I am going to heaven.
I will make some allowances for that great 'rolladex' of our lives being stored in heaven but I think, should I die and not live to see the millennial reign I will be awakened by Jesus. If the WTS or Bible Students are correct about a resurrection in the millennial reign yippee, if not then it will be after the millennial reign to the opening of the scrolls.
Theological opinions of afterlife vary from denomination to denomination......
