A Conversation That Sent Me On a Search ...

by snowbird 57 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Chalam

  Purps, it is all just a blur now, but wasn't there also something about Satan being let loose one last time at the end of the 1000 years to retest these people?

  Correct

  Revelation 20:3 (New International Version)

  3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

  And I am still pretty sure about that threat that the "second death" would be kept around to keep earth people in line after that for all eternity.

  Incorrect. That would mean multiple judgement days. As it is there is only one

  Hebrews 9:27 (New International Version)

  27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment

  Luke 20:35-36 Matthew 11:22 Matthew 11:24 Matthew 12:36 Luke 20:35-37 2 Peter 2:9 2 Peter 3:7 1 John 4:17 Jude 1:6

  Yes, so for that thousand years while Satan is abyssed, resurrected ones can learn without his influence.

  Correct. Bear in mind there are two resurrections and the best one happens first Luke 14:14 Revelation 20:5 Revelation 20:6

  I guess the thinking is that some may have never had the chance to learn about Jah and those that might have

  were influenced negatively by Satan.

  These people have the best hope, I suppose, to not be tested to the very end, Armeggeddon. Having died way before it.

  There is one hope! Ephesians 4:4-5 However, I understand you thinking somewhat, even though it is flavoured by the WT.

  They can commit their sins and not have the same judgement as those living in the critical time of the end.

  Ah, now you see why Satan must be let loose for a short time at the end of the 1000 years. Even with total peace on Earth and zero sin, they will still rebel and choose Satan over God.

  As I understand people will die during the thousand years.

  Correct. People are going to live long though.

  Isaiah 65:20 (New International Version)

  20 "Never again will there be in it
  an infant who lives but a few days,
  or an old man who does not live out his years;
  he who dies at a hundred
  will be thought a mere youth;
  he who fails to reach a hundred
  will be considered accursed.

  Those who have their part in the first resurrection will have everlasting life.

  1 Corinthians 15:42 (New International Version)

  42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  snowbird

  Farkel, I'm still struggling with that. Faithfully struggling.

  Thanks for your input, also.

  Sylvia
• 

  JWoods

  And I am still pretty sure about that threat that the "second death" would be kept around to keep earth people in line after that for all eternity.

  Incorrect. That would mean multiple judgement days. As it is there is only one

  Oh, I didn't mean that it was either logical or scriptural - I meant that I was almost sure that I either read this in an old watchtower or heard somebody opine it from the platform. As an assurance that for all eternity YHWH would never again let any angel or whateve get out of line like Satan did vis a vis Garden of Eden.
• 

  snowbird

  As I understand people will die during the thousand years.

  Correct. People are going to live long though.

  Isaiah 65:20 (New International Version)

  20 "Never again will there be in it
  an infant who lives but a few days,
  or an old man who does not live out his years;
  he who dies at a hundred
  will be thought a mere youth;
  he who fails to reach a hundred
  will be considered accursed.

  So, people who die during the Thousand Years will be resurrected at the end of the Thousand Years!

  This is the opposite of what WT teaches.

  It seems there will not be resurrections during the Thousand Years.

  WT has been put to shame by the very Scriptures they profess to uphold.

  Sylvia
• 

  Chalam

  Oh, I didn't mean that it was either logical or scriptural - I meant that I was almost sure that I either read this in an old watchtower or heard somebody opine it from the platform.

  Agreed! WT teaching and scriptural truths are mutually exclusive.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Chalam

  WT has been put to shame by the very Scriptures they profess to uphold.

  Amen and amen.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Farkel

  JWood,

  : As an assurance that for all eternity YHWH would never again let any angel or whateve get out of line like Satan did vis a vis Garden of Eden.

  Oh, good! Jehovah learns from his mistakes! Now THAT is about as comforting as taking a dip in the Great Salt Lake after getting hit by schrapnel!

  Farkel
• 

  yknot

  Okay so based on Stephen's post (page 2) Asking forgiveness isn't necessary as all sin has been forgiven, past present and future. I am a bit confused as I thought that passage was meant to explain why the Jews offered blood sacrifices and we don't as Christ setting up the 'better covenent' has acted as the sacrifice on our behalf thus we don't have to kill stuff and take it to some Temple. But if he is correct why does the "Lord's Prayer" have the asking of forgiveness and 1 John 1:9?

  What about all the other stuff within Christiainity....like profession of Jesus as the Christ (what about that 'heathen' who has never heard of Christ), what about yall trinitarians who say all must be trinitarian to be saved?

  I am not trying to be obstinate I truly am just trying to understand and I am sincerely confused~

  I am sorry but the only thing I have ever truly discerned on this subject is Dubbievision and admittedly I leaned more toward Russell's version with mortality in the millennial reign rather than us living for a 1000 or so years.

  They are neither believers, have Christ as their mediator or have any eternal hope at all

  Stephen........this is too broad of a statement, that is like saying all Catholics shun birth-control. People have individual scrolls not scrolls by denomination..... Loves Ya but many JWs do believe (and profess) Jesus as their mediator (picking and choosing WTSisms)....some even partake on the sly before or after the Memorial Meeting too.

  Confused but Curious.....Yknot
• 

  aligot ripounsous

  "Do you mean that no matter what awful things a person may do, death cancels it all?"

  As to the question your lieutenant asked, Snowbird, I would have understood that he wondered how, on the basis of fair justice, a criminal like Hitler would incur the same penalty, that is death, as the one who is sentenced to death by men on account of having committed a single murder.

  I understand that remark because our innate sense of justice tells us that, somehow, penalty must be in proportion with the seriousness of the fault. Yes but, what penalty, other than death, can be inflicted upon Hitler ? Are we going to resuscitate hellfire or purgatory just for the sake of satisfying our legitimate desire for an examplary punishment upon Hitler, or torture him before putting him to death ? Hard as it is to accept this sentence that "He who has died has been acquitted from his sins", I can't see a better sanction to criminal action, whether the criminal has been responsible for the death of 10 or 10 million innocent persons.

  Now, that doesn't answer the question re. for what actions the resurrected ones will be judged. Better say that the Bible isn't clear on this subject. I would personally find it difficult, along with a few others, to countenance Hitler being around during 1000 years or even part thereof, pending judgement, but here is the grand haziness of Revelation, we can believe about anything we want to see in it. Wait and see.
• 

  dissed

  Snowbird

  Shared with the wife your post but not as nice as you did.

  I asked her the question what would have you told a Bible study about sins, death, and the resurection?

  She started to reply, and said, wait a second, what are you getting at? (33 years together, she has me figured out)

  I told her to check out your post and she did. Her response. "This site is making me feel more stupid everyday. I'm completely humiliated. I was an idiot to believe the junk they taught me"

  And this from an accomplished teacher who had helped many come to the JW's.