A Conversation That Sent Me On a Search ...

by snowbird 57 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Chalam

    Forgiveness? If a person has consistently repented and been forgiven (or I guess even a heartfelt deathbed one) how does that filter into this discussion of judgement? How is Judgement affected--- both in this 'system' and/or 'millennial'.......

    Matthew 9:2 (New International Version)

    2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

    Jesus forgives sins. His sacrifice was "once for all", this chapter covers the topic Hebrews 10

    In a nutshell

    Hebrews 10:10 (New International Version)

    10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    Hebrews 9:12 (New International Version)

    12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

    What does "once for all" mean? One sacrifice, the blood of Christ for the whole of the sins of mankind, past present and future.

    Hebrews 13:20 (New International Version)

    20 May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep

    JWs show symbolically that they are not part of the new covenant by not drinking the symbolic blood of Christ as believers are commanded to do.

    They are neither believers, have Christ as their mediator or have any eternal hope at all

    All the best,


  • snowbird

    Thanks to JWoods and Chalam.

    The WT so filled our heads with class distinctions of Christians that it is almost impossible to, as my estranged Jamaican husband would say, pick sense out of nonsense!

    Truth be told, none know what will be happening during the Thousand Years of Christ's return.


  • purplesofa

    Does anyone think that if the Hitlers and Stalins of history were resurrected and given 1000 years to change their ways that they actually would? It seems to me they would end up doing lots of terrible stuff during their 1000 years. Would they be given a full 1000 years or would they be incarcerated and executed after their first crime? What if they weren't caught, or what if they were falsely accused and then executed? Was there a teaching on any of this?

    The way I understood people like this being resurrected.

    Their sins are forgiven through death and

    they would have the chance to learn about Jehovah without Satan's

    influence on them. Thus, they would have a morally clean situation to

    learn and make the decision as to whether they want to serve Jehovah.

    During the thousand years death will come to those that choose not to follow Jah.

    I suppose the death comes from Jehovah himself, I don't know.

  • JWoods

    Purps, it is all just a blur now, but wasn't there also something about Satan being let loose one last time at the end of the 1000 years to retest these people?

    And I am still pretty sure about that threat that the "second death" would be kept around to keep earth people in line after that for all eternity.

    If this is what goes on in the new system during and after the thousand years, it sort of makes one wonder what the hell all this 115 years plus of JW activity was all about??? Everybody seems to go back to square one and get another preaching, teaching, testing and judgement...over and over and over...

    BTW - one hilarious note on the "sin eaters": As they were so despised for their necessary but disgusting role - they were completely ostracized by the village and no one would talk to them, not even their family. Where no, I pondered, have I heard this before?

  • poppers

    Thanks, purps. So, their sins are forgiven, but if they are an exact duplicate then their memories, tendencies, and proclivities should be fully intact. That alone would seem to be a strike against a clean start. People's actions are largely a result of past tendencies and conditioning, even if there is no longer a "Satan" influencing them. It seems to me that JWs place all blame on this Satan character and dismiss notions of personal responsibility for anything. I wonder what weight JWs give to their own inherent weakenesses based on mental conditioning rather than "Satanic influence".

  • purplesofa

    Purps, it is all just a blur now, but wasn't there also something about Satan being let loose one last time at the end of the 1000 years to retest these people?

    And I am still pretty sure about that threat that the "second death" would be kept around to keep earth people in line after that for all eternity.

    Yes, so for that thousand years while Satan is abyssed, resurrected ones can learn without his influence.

    I guess the thinking is that some may have never had the chance to learn about Jah and those that might have

    were influenced negatively by Satan.

    These people have the best hope, I suppose, to not be tested to the very end, Armeggeddon. Having died way before it.

    They can commit their sins and not have the same judgement as those living in the critical time of the end.

    As I understand people will die during the thousand years.

  • darkl1ght3r

    Snowbird... interesting indeed! Funny that's a doctrine I never thought to question untill you mentioned it here. Just when you thing the dubs can't be any MORE wrong than they already are... lol Anyway, good post on a relatively untouched topic!

  • snowbird

    From a reading of Revelation 21 & 22, the Thousand Years will be a time of beauty, light, and healing!


    That is enough for me.


  • JWoods

    I can hear the "new Hitler" right now: OK, I will get you people organized and fix the new system economy - but this time: NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!!!

  • Farkel


    :I smugly quoted the WT's view that death cancels out a person's sins.

    Despite all the other posts showing JW bullshit reasoning about the subject, one doesn't need to go very far to discover the JW doctrine contradicts the scripture that says the wages of sin are death.

    When Adam died. Debt paid. Adam should then be given a clean slate. He wasn't.

    When Jesus died and paid the bullshit "ransom", the mega-collective debt should have been paid. It wasn't.

    Besides Jesus' bullshit ransom shouldn't have had to be paid at all if each person's death would make the payment for that person.

    So the Bible gets down to this, "when the debt is fully paid with interest, you still have debt to pay."

    I can get a better deal than that from the Mafia.


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