Believers Eternal Security vs. Tribulation Salvation

by Perry 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bob1999

    15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.

  • bob1999

    17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth.

    18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.

    19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?

    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?

    21 Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

  • leavingwt


    I enjoyed reading your posts, here. Thank you.


  • Perry

    HI BOB,

    Do you have a thought you'd like to contribute?

    Thanks for sharing Moshe

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog


    In the Old Testament the Jews were required to keep the law of Moses as well as have faith in God in order to be saved. I don't think this guy understands grace. If the Jews were keeping the law, Jesus died for nothing.

    The King James Bible is the final authority for all doctrine,
    faith, and practice.
    This guy can't be for real.

  • PSacramento

    Its funny, of all the spiritual things that I may think about, my salvation is rarely it !
    I think about serving God and Jesus as best I can, I pray to them to give me the strength to be a better person, father, husband, son and brother, I thank them for their love and grace, I try to be the best Christian I can be, never really care to focus on "my salvation", always figured that in the end, Jesus And God would be my judge anyways, and if there was no God, then no worries, LOL !!

  • Mad Dawg
    Mad Dawg

    I find that the link provided is fraught with false premises and factual errors. Such as:

    The entire rest of the Old Testament deals with the nation of Israel.

    Off hand the following don’t deal with the nation of Isreal specifically:

    Ø Jonah (preaching to Ninevah)

    Ø Nahum (condemns Ninevah)

    Ø Psalms (mostly written to praise God)

    Ø Proverbs (written by Solomon to his son)

    Ø Ecclesiates (a commentary on the human condition)

    Ø Song of Solomon (a love letter that is later said to be God referring to Israel)

    The author of the article uses a rational about “divisions” that would make the WTS proud. When someone uses a series of snippets of scripture, be careful. Here the author brutally butchers the Scriptures:

    · Matthew 19:16b,17,21

    ...Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 21...and follow me.

    Which is compressed from here:

    {19:16} And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? {19:17} And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is,] God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. {19:18} He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, {19:19} Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. {19:20} The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? {19:21} Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me. {19:22} But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

    In a nutshell, the young man is saying that he is perfect enough to enter Heaven on his own merit. Jesus puts His finger on the man’s pride and points out that the man loves his possessions more than God or other people.

    The article is so poorly written, one would do just as well as to discuss the topic with the Mad Hatter.

  • PSacramento

    Mad Dawg,

    Well put and I especially like the correct interpretation of Matthew 19.

    Jesus had a way of find outr faults and remind us of them, to make it clear to all of us that we are NOT perfect and that, no mater what we THINK we know or do or feel we are deserving of, we are still far from what we need to be and that it is only God's grace, given to Us through Jesus, that truly saves Us.

  • bluecanary

    Moshe, thanks for sharing your story. I'm always interested to see what different religions ex-JW convert to.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Mad Dawg

    You hit the nail on the head.

    Mat 19:25

    When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?" 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

    Even the disciples saw that no one could keep the law.

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