Original "Sin" does NOT exist in the Bible.

by sinis 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I perfectly agree that the "orthodox" doctrine of original sin (as defined by Augustine for instance) isn't exactly found anywhere in the Bible (although Paul has historically contributed to it) and that there is nothing even remotely resembling it in the OT. However, once again, please try to understand how the history of ideas, beliefs and texts works not to have it systematically assbackwards.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/152245/1/Sumerian-texts-and-the-Bible (this is getting old)

  • sinis
    sinis

    According to the teaching, Original Sin is no fault of ours. It is something we inherited. This is true in both Eastern and Western Christianity. There is Original Sin, and there is Actual Sin. The two are not the same. Really, "Original Sin" is not a sin at all. The term is misleading. What it refers to is a state that humans have existed in since the Fall. A newborn baby has not sinned, he/she is not yet capable of sinning. Yet we are all born into a fallen state where we exist in a separation from God.

    What "fall"? Where does man "fall" in the Genesis account? Man ascends and Jehovah gets pissed. Where does man "fall"? Just because he did not want to be slave at the whim of the "Gods"? A little selfish, don't you think...

    ...war, rape, murder are just aspects of life, after all Jehovah himself out of one corner of his mouth forbides man from raping, murdering, stealing, etc. but sanctions the Jews to steal land not theirs, take women not known to a man as their own property, and slaughter by the hundreds of thousands whole cultures for a piece of soil... yea, what a great "God"... if anyone has "sinned" I would say that that concept falls upon the "creator" himself...

    So, if a newborn baby, is taken care of by a robot, perfectly programmed, within the relative term, with NO human contact, then you are saying that that baby would be "perfect" and not a sinner? After all it could be argued that we all "learn" sin...

  • sinis
    sinis

    BTS, has kicked the correct in the crotch !

    From my understanding "original sin" was our mortality, we are all born mortal, mortality being the "original sin", quite different than sinning.

    But if you don't like that word, that's cool, choose another.

    Once again, where does the Genesis account allude to that we were made to be immortal or even had that option through divine intervention.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Well, if God made man in his image, wouldn't immortality fit into the "image' ?

    Not that I put much stock in the "literal" meaning of Genesis.

  • sinis
  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    What "fall"? Where does man "fall" in the Genesis account?

    The Fall of Man is the term that has been used to refer to the actions that led to Adam and Eve's exit from the Garden of Eden. Since you are quoting the Bible, I assume you are familiar with the account. I too interpret it in a metaphorical rather than literal way, but it represents something that happened.

    Just because he did not want to be slave at the whim of the "Gods"? A little selfish, don't you think...

    Man was not made to be a slave to God, but to be a free being that could be with God if he so chose. God made a provision so that by divine grace man could be reconciled with God if he so chose. That provision is Jesus Christ. I am speaking to you in Christian terms.

    All the evil and suffering that exists in the world, including the things that you list, are the result of Man's choice to not be with God.

    So, if a newborn baby, is taken care of by a robot, perfectly programmed, within the relative term, with NO human contact, then you are saying that that baby would be "perfect" and not a sinner? After all it could be argued that we all "learn" sin...

    Human beings, due to their current state, are naturally prone to sin. This is called concupiscence. Even a child that is not taught evil will one day fall before a temptation of some kind and choose a lesser good over a greater one. This is actual sin. We are not what we should be, yet we will become what we should be through divine grace.

    BTS

  • sinis
  • sinis
    sinis

    GOD DAMMIT!!!! What is wrong with this site???? Everytime I have posted (very lengthy reponsis) it shows up BLANK!!!!

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    The site is very dodgy, today, eh, Sinis?

    BurnTheShip nailed it.

    Sylvia

  • sinis
    sinis

    We all know that the Genesis account is metaphorical and NOT literal.

    Where does it say in the Bible that man was allowed to be a "free" being?

    Who decides "what" sin is? As I have mentioned the God of the Bible indicates to man that they shall not do certain things, yet he leads the way by example and trumps his very words...

    I know what you are getting at. However, "sin" within the logical scope of things is a misnomer and does not exist. I do wonder why Christians and others hang their heads on this concept hoping for something better through a destruction process... makes no sense.

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