Our "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • garyneal

    My wife and I had a "Bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige. The book we covered was "Keeping yourself in God's love." This particular "Bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the Bible. Never-the-less the points presented cannot be refuted as it seemed to speak favorably of marraige and how we must stick with each other no matter what to honor God. Cannot disagree with any of that and the study went very well for everyone involved.

    One of the passages of scripture that was covered was Matthew 28:19-20 and my mind immediately went to the baptism questions that the Jehovah's Witnesses use just before new converts become baptized. My wife made mention of it and I took the opportunity to discuss this matter with the JW's. For those of you amongst the JW's who aren't familiar with the baptismal questions that JW's ask of their converts you may look them up in the June 1, 1985 Watchtower (page 30). For the rest of us, here they are:

    The first question is:
    On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    The second is:
    Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? (italics mine)

    That second questions is of particular importance because the wording would seem to suggest that you are being baptized to an organization. Almost like your being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Watchtower organization. I pointed this out to the JW's and asked how come it did not agree with Matthew 28:19. I illustrated the absurdedy of it by presenting a hypothetical scenario where a preacher asks a new Christian, "Do you accept Jesus as you Lord and Savior and dedicate yourself to God?" Upon saying yes, the preacher would then say, "Well then by this baptism, you agree to become part of my church and identify yourself as one of us."

    The elder's wife said, "Well that's what most churches do." And said it in a tone that certainly would suggest that she is not willing to open her mind to anything that contradicts their doctrine. I cannot speak for all churches but I can say that the church where I was originally baptized did not make me a member of that church and the church I currently attend stress the fact that church membership is not a requirement for salvation or for baptism. As I explained to the witnesses, I always believed that baptism symbolizes your dedication and association to the Lord, not to an organization. Being saved and later baptized marks you as a Christian first. We're not considered Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterians, or Jehovah's Witnesses unless we decide to become a member of those "organizations." Apparently they rolled the membership and dedication all into one.

    To all Jehovah's Witnesses who are lurking this message board, what are your thoughts on this? The elder's wife told me that they go over Matthew 28:19 during the "questioning" before the baptism. To which I replied, "You mean where you ask the 80 to 120 questions of potential new baptized witnesses?" Personally, I believe that questioning is not scriptural either. The elder said he would look into it and get back with me on the concerns that I raised.

  • BabaYaga

    I am very happy to hear that you are well-educated about the Witnesses because they are doing their best to indoctrinate you!

    How long have you been studying? Were you or your wife Witnesses before? (Sorry if this has already been answered and I missed it.)

    If I haven't welcomed you already, welcome, Gary.

  • jeanniebeanz

    They view your saying 'yes' to this vow as a legally binding contract with them,not dedication to god through the sacrafice of his son. That is the basis for their hard-line on disfellowshipping. You signed a contract to stay one of us. If you violate this contract, you will be kicked out and the congregation can have no further contact with you (if they know what's good for them).

    It's legalistic bull-crap-o-rama.

    And, Welcome! :)


  • Alwayshere

    Once you are Baptized in that organization, they own you. You are dedicating yourself to them not God. They get you hooked with the basic doctrains and after you are Baptized you see some of the other things that the Bible does not teach but you have to believe them or be disfellowshipped. You are not allowed to think for your self. Watchttower 1/15/1983 "Avoid independdent thinking. Independent thinking is manifested by questioning the counsel of the organization." March 1/1906 "you cannot ask questions that would challange the authority of those who teach." Kingdom ministry 1995 "On Sunday April23,1995 a special talk will be given in all congragations. The title "False religions end is near." And then in 2007 they hand out a "tract" titled " False religion's end is near." So many other lies. stay on this post and I am sure someone can cover them. If not I can.

  • Chalam

    Hello Gary,

    Some answers here

    Ephesians 4:4-6 (New International Version)

    4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

    "One body" means one church (many denominations).

    The WT go directly against "one hope" with their heretical claim to multiple hopes ("heavenly" and "earthly" hopes).

    The WT go against the "one Lord" statement too, translating Jesus as Lord and also "Jehovah" as the Greek Lord in the NWT.

    The WT go against the "one Father" claiming that Jesus is not one with the Father but is another Father (Isaiah 9:6).

    All the best,


    All the best,


  • independent_tre

    Very good points, but most of this goes over the average JW also due in part to their introduction of the 'slave' class and the need to be loyal to the 'slave', not just God and Jesus. It's very warped in comparison to whats clearly written in scripture.

  • OnTheWayOut

    You've got it right. Most of us were not sharp enough, or were led away from realizing much of what you say.
    The questions for a recruit are covered in 3 one-hour sessions before they are "allowed" to get baptized.
    The questions at the baptism do dedicate you to the organization, something beyond the Bible.

  • Perry

    Excellent Points.

    The elder said he would look into it and get back with me on the concerns that I raised.

    This is the quick standard answer that you get when witnessing to a Jehovah's Witness, usually as they walk away. Much better to be sitting down like you did and at least get your points in before they start to mentally shut down. I wished more people woud ENGAGE like this. You never know, those folks may have children or relatives that cannot get to them, and your seed may be the one that grows that reunites a family.

    Thank You.

  • ldrnomo

    It's like being in the Mafia, you can join but you can't quit MF or we'll find you and get you.


  • ldrnomo


    I wish my wife and I had this forum and the internet when we started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses 30 years ago. Things would have been different.


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