god im angry

by creativhoney 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • cameo-d

    Black sheep: "An apostate Elder, in good standing, is the WTs worst nightmare."

    I disagree. An apostate elder in good standing is not a good example for either side.

    He is living a lie and justifing his cowardice.

    Black Sheep: "He is in the best position to drop seeds of doubt while still being listened to."

    Why should anyone listen to someone who can not be true to their own self and make a stand for the real truth of the matter.

    Only a fool would listen to someone who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

    Black Sheep: "If you you want to help your family and friends to escape from the cult, your best chance is by being the last one out, so don't give people who are doing that a hard time. They need your support."

    So lets hear from these "last ones" who are too scared to set an example and stand for principle. Let's hear about how many they have actually gotton out by staying in and hiding.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Ok Cameo....

    What do you have to say about an apostate who goes back and gets reinstated for the purpose of getting his family out?

    Are you going to support him/her? Give them shit?? What???

  • cameo-d

    Black Sheep: "What do you have to say about an apostate who goes back and gets reinstated for the purpose of getting his family out? Are you going to support him/her?

    Give them shit?? What???" ( I would cut a lot more slack with someone who is not an elder!)

    I'd like to hear a progress report. What exactly is this person doing as far as "efforts"? Is there a game plan? Does it involve dissecting scripture in talking with family? What do these "seeds" look like? And how long has this person been attempting this course? Has this person defined a time line? How long will you give them to "make up their mind"? Do you make a concerted effort every day in something you say to them? Do you really believe you can change someone and how exactly do you find their button?

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    It worked Cameo.

    Elder or not doesn't matter. It is a LOT easier to nudge your family towards the door from the inside, than to pull them out from the outside.

    Get used to it.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Here is one. She wrote a book about it.


    Maybe you could get in touch with her and give her a lesson in hypocracy, or whatever you think she was guilty of while she was undercover.



  • shopaholic


    Thank you for sharing.

    I know how you feel, when I first came to this board, I was livid that there were active elders on this board that appeared to have no plans of leaving their position. Same for active publishers but not as much. I began to see things differently after several conversations with JW friends, including elders, early on in my fade who thought I was simply discouraged. Its amazing what they will share when they think you're discouraged.

    Many JWs do not want to be JWS. Many of them have strong doubts, some of them just don't believe any of it. But for most it defines their existence and they cannot see life without the "security" of being a witness (Jehovah, the GB, the built-in social structure, status, etc). For some, they simply don't want to "lose" their family.

    The fact that active JWs post here regularly, gives some indication of how deep the JW rabbit hole can go for some. Of course, my preference is that everyone that doesn't believe the doctrine would walk away. The reality is that its easier said than done.

    Take a deep breath, remember that everyone's journey is different, exhale out the angry...


  • choosing life
    choosing life

    I'm not sure what all of that was, but it took a long time to scroll down past it. Back to the topic.

    I understand why some find those, who know better, still serving as elders objectionable. I couldn't do it. On the other side of the story, most on here are glad to get info from current elders. There have been letters to the elders posted here and we often get info about coming changes on here before it is announced to the congos.

    We all leave or stay for different reasons. Who are we to judge another? In reality, elders are no more than any other humans. It is a made up position of nonsense to make small men feel important.

  • jamiebowers

    I couldn't agree more, Black Sheep and Choosing Life. Even if elders become such for the power and glory, they've been just as mislead as any other jw.

  • palmtree67


    "It is a made up position of nonsense to make small men feel important."

    Exactly. We attended a different congregation than we were assigned to for awhile (we had good reasons) and were constantly given flack from the elders about "following theocratic direction" and attending within the proper boundaries.

    Theocratic direction??


    It was an imaginary line on a map!!!


  • Open mind
    Open mind

    This feels like I'm in the middle of a Kafka story.

    Fer god's sake folks, I stopped REALLY acting like an elder at least 2 years ago.

    I have been a "flaky" elder ever since.

    Did any of you who are saying I'm looking for advice on what to do on a JC even bother to read my thread?

    I said I vowed to myself 2 years ago not to sit on any more JCs and I HAVE KEPT THAT PROMISE.


    (insert cricket noises here)

    I was just playing a little "what if" game on a thread here on JWN, not actually messing with my fellow elders or other people's real lives like I did when I was a true believer.

    Thank you Black Sheep for your observations.

    I looked to the experiences of others when I first started reading on here and learned a lot.

    The poster "Amazing" aka Jim Whitney gave excellent advice on how he got his family to think from the inside while still serving as an elder.

    I think this is a no-brainer. If you really want to give your immediate family the best shot at waking up and smelling reality, you've got to stay in and play it day by day until they're finally awakened. Now, here's where I part ways with OTWO. He says step aside as an elder very quickly and do a fade. You're powerful stand will wake up your family.

    Maybe. It's all a crap shoot.

    I say, keep your "privileges" and work on them from a position of "spiritual strength". When you 1. step aside and 2. become inactive your credibility goes straight in the crapper for anyone still gripped by the clutches of the cult mentality.

    Is it hypocritical?

    Yes. In a sense. I've got the mantle of elderhood while actually believing that much of JWism is total BS.

    But since I believe it's a mind-control cult, why should I care about being "true" to their rules?

    I care about my family and I'm going to do my best to get them out.

    So far, I'm doing pretty well. My oldest child is 99.5% (the highest percentage I've posted to date) free of JWism. It looked like he/she was going to take the plunge for social reasons a few months ago, but now it looks like that's probably not going to happen. Sweet!

    My wife is making slow but sure progress. She's a born-in like me and I'm giving her as much time as she needs.

    All my kids are allowed to participate in extra-curricular activities. They have "worldly" friends. They know my wife and I think much of JWism is BS.

    It's a work in progress and I think we're getting there.

    Cast all the stones you want. I only share my experiences here so others can weight it out in their minds before pursuing their own plan.



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