god im angry

by creativhoney 41 Replies latest jw friends

flipper

PJS CHIPPER- At least you are accurate about one thing - " My mind cannot possibly be warped any more than it has. " No truer words were ever spoken my friend.
OPEN MIND- I have no problem at all with how you are trying to reach your family in time and get them out of the witnesses. In fact as I stated on your other thread I admire the hell out of you that you can attempt to do so and stay sane emotionally and mentally without allowing the subtle cult mind control drivel to still influence you. More power to you for being able to pull that one off ! One statement I definitely agree with you said is , " But since I believe it's a mind control cult , why should I care about being " true " to their rules ? " I totally agree. It's why I helped a friend get reinstated as a pretend elder in a fake JC . It's why I fought so hard against an appeal committee and threatened the bastards with a lawsuit letter and got my DFing overturned. The WT society never follows their OWN rules and don't play fair - why should anybody else who they are trying to control ? Keep on keeping on Open Mind . I wish you success. We all do what we do in our own way which fits best for our circumstances
jamiebowers

I too wish you the best, Open Mind. I've got to wonder if your critics aren't somewhat jealous that you have the opportunities that you have to get your family out of the cult. I certainly wish I could've done things differently, but I was scared for my life when I left. At least you may be able to be there for another battered woman or molested child in the congregation. There sure weren't any sane elders around when I needed one.
God speed.

quietlyleaving

I too wish you the best, Open Mind. I've got to wonder if your critics aren't somewhat jealous that you have the opportunities that you have to get your family out of the cult. I certainly wish I could've done things differently, but I was scared for my life when I left. At least you may be able to be there for another battered woman or molested child in the congregation. There sure weren't any sane elders around when I needed one.

elders on the inside can't do a thing for battered women or for molested children. They will be chastized by the other elders and may even lose their positions. Jamiebowers, the procedure is very very strict. Everyone must play their part to "beautify" Jehovah and his organisation. If a battered woman/man or molested child asks for support by mentioning their abuse to anyone they are detracting from Jehovahs name. They must keep quiet. Open mind is extremely unlikely to be in a position to offer meaningful help to a battered woman/man or molested child without running the risk of losing respect and positon within the organization. Refusing to sit on any judicial cases means that there are many elders in the congregation who can do the job instead. If that isn't the case then he's going to be in trouble soon. But I do hope that he can succeed in getting his family out. Open mind best of luck to you. But I have to say I prefer OTWO's method as he has the opportunity of preparing an outside life for himself and his wife but on the other hand he doesn't have any children to worry about. So I guess there is no easy way.

I've met creative honey and she is the kindest sweetest person you could hope to meet - no jealousy at all. She has met the challenge of being disfellowshipped head on and having to continue to deal with its after effects. Venting anger is a way of drawing attention to the appalling injustice of being forced to use every resource one has to "beautify Jehovahs name" - those who are still in (myself included inactively) are still part of the process. And of course Jehovahs organization continues because the majority of those who are in think its all very beautiful and glorious - what could possibly be wrong with it!!

LUKEWARM

Black Sheep said: An apostate Elder, in good standing, is the WTs worst nightmare.

He is in the best position to drop seeds of doubt while still being listened to.

If you want to help your family and friends to escape from the cult, your best chance is by being the last one out
Open Mind said: If you really want to give your immediate family the best shot at waking up and smelling reality, you've got to stay in and play it day by day until they're finally awakened.
I agree with both statements and believe them to be true based on my observations over the last 20+ years.

Once you leave, it is very hard if not impossible to extract family and friends as they are conditioned to view you differently - hence why I'm still on the inside...

The more liberal/apostate elders on the WTS books the better due to their position to influence more balanced outcomes.

Can you imagine the powerful force for good that somebody in that position can achieve whilst working withing the system to extract his own family and friends? eg

- watering down parts and holding non extreme views
- not reporting people for judicial matters
- helping people to think logically
- talk to disfellowshipped people and work for their reinstatement
- influence others not to disfellowship if part of judicial committee
- helping the friends to look after themselves and their families more than to focus on field service and meetings at the expense of all else
- recommend to others to keep engaged with relatives and not to be too self righteous and condem others who hold to a different belief - to even attend some festivities during Christmas Easter etc
- encourage young ones not to look down on education but pursue it
- get them thinking about charity work and assisting the poor in practical ways
- show understanding and compassion toward people and not apply cold WTS judgementalism etc etc etc

Whilst being mentally disconnected from the WTS pharisaic rules these individuals can truly make a difference - a short term one at best - but nevertheless a difference for the better...
Black Sheep

I say, keep your "privileges" and work on them from a position of "spiritual strength". When you 1. step aside and 2. become inactive your credibility goes straight in the crapper for anyone still gripped by the clutches of the cult mentality.
Is it hypocritical?
Yes. In a sense. I've got the mantle of elderhood while actually believing that much of JWism is total BS.
But since I believe it's a mind-control cult, why should I care about being "true" to their rules?
I care about my family and I'm going to do my best to get them out.
....and that says it how it is.
How many of your critics have the balls to stay in, or get back in, for long enough to get their families out?
You have my respect, Open mind. As does Jim and anyone else who can rise to the challenge.
Cheers
Chris
Bumble Bee

There is no cardboard cookie cutter solution to leaving this cult. Everyone is different, everyone has different circumstances and who are we to judge how someone leaves? Didn't we want to leave the JWs because of how they judge everyone? The gossip, backbiting? I hated listening to that while stuck in a car with a bunch of other people. I hated hearing it at "get togethers", hated feeling judged for everything I did or didn't do.
We have all made a choice to leave, and how to leave.
How many here have been able to get their families out after being labeled an apostate, or weak, or spiritually sick or when DF'd? Very few I'd say. How many have been able to get their familes out by working from the inside? More than those labeled an apostate.
I also agree that it seems like OM's post was not read correctly. Maybe get your facts straight before jumping to conclusions about him serving on JC's. There is nothing wrong with venting and expressing our anger over a situation, but you had the situation wrong from the get go.
Stop judging others for their life choices.
quietlyleaving

BB - creativhoney did not get OM's OP wrong at all. I for one am glad she had the courage to challenge him on it and stop the brain fart from going any further - a good dose of reality check is often sorely needed.
Om is very clear about what his aim is and I say fair enough - get your family out. But with regard to JC's, my husband and my son would never in a million years countenance me or my daughter having to face a JC and it doesn't matter what we do we'll never have to face a JC - I know that for a certainty. Similarly I don't think OM would ever allow a JC to even be convened against any member of his own family. Now if he'd said he'd had a brain fart about stopping JCs from being convened and suggest that the individual should be encouraged to see a professional counsellor first and then based upon what the professional says, decide to convene one or not - that would be a different matter.
Another point - apostates who get kicked out help a lot more people than their own immediate family - lets be clear about that.
kurtbethel

Staying in, leaving, fading, all these choices happen in a context. Any choice made has consequences in friends and family lost, or maybe saved from harm. No one can say for another what is the right choice. You choose, and you accept the consequences. You are responsible. If you stay in as an elder there is no "Nuremburg" defense that you were just following orders to bring harm and suffering on someone. If you leave and do not help others out then that is a choice that could be harmful too. There is just no easy answer to this.
jamiebowers

elders on the inside can't do a thing for battered women or for molested children. They will be chastized by the other elders and may even lose their positions. Jamiebowers, the procedure is very very strict. Everyone must play their part to "beautify" Jehovah and his organisation. If a battered woman/man or molested child asks for support by mentioning their abuse to anyone they are detracting from Jehovahs name. They must keep quiet. Open mind is extremely unlikely to be in a position to offer meaningful help to a battered woman/man or molested child without running the risk of losing respect and positon within the organization. Refusing to sit on any judicial cases means that there are many elders in the congregation who can do the job instead. If that isn't the case then he's going to be in trouble soon. But I do hope that he can succeed in getting his family out. Open mind best of luck to you. But I have to say I prefer OTWO's method as he has the opportunity of preparing an outside life for himself and his wife but on the other hand he doesn't have any children to worry about. So I guess there is no easy way.
I've met creative honey and she is the kindest sweetest person you could hope to meet - no jealousy at all. She has met the challenge of being disfellowshipped head on and having to continue to deal with its after effects. Venting anger is a way of drawing attention to the appalling injustice of being forced to use every resource one has to "beautify Jehovahs name" - those who are still in (myself included inactively) are still part of the process. And of course Jehovahs organization continues because the majority of those who are in think its all very beautiful and glorious - what could possibly be wrong with it!!
In my case and probably for that of many others, an elder like open mind could be approached for advice. He, in turn could make a few well placed anonymous phone calls to the proper authorities, all without "incriminating" himself or the victims. That is more than most elders will do in cases of child molestation and domestic violence.
I don't have a problem with creativehoney...never met her, so I don't know if she's jealous of Open Mind. But it is my OPINION that her anger should be directed at the WB&TS, not its victims, even if that victim happens to be an elder.
Open mind

quietlyleaving said:
"Similarly I don't think OM would ever allow a JC to even be convened against any member of his own family. Now if he'd said he'd had a brain fart about stopping JCs from being convened and suggest that the individual should be encouraged to see a professional counsellor first and then based upon what the professional says, decide to convene one or not - that would be a different matter. "
A refreshing voice of sanity. Thank you.
The only problem is, if I were to voice that, it's an immediate Disassociation.
The whole concept of JCs is ludicrous and reminiscent of the Spanish Inquisition (without the mechanical devices).
If my wife (the only BAPTIZED member of my immediate family) were to be summoned to a JC, I would give her the "straight dope" and let her make up her mind on how to proceed. My kids could, at worst, only be summoned to a 2-elder "your no longer a Publisher-of-the-Good-News" Committee.
JCs are messed up.
The JW religion is messed up.
There's no way I will ever ACTUALLY find myself on a JC again.
Nuff said?
om

god im angry

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