Even if not for most ... does being a JW work for some?

by The Berean 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut

    Even if not for most ... does being a JW work for some?

    Are not those with a flawed plan better than those with none at all ?

    Hitler could not have pulled off his crimes without the help of the entire German nation. To me, they were the "do-nothings"

    You contradict yourself. You ask if a JW with a flawed plan is better than someone with no plan. Then you say the entire German nation helped a monster named Hitler because they had no plans. They planned to do as their leader told them. (It's not really that simple, but bear with me on this.) So then the entire JW membership- are they like the entire German nation? Are they do-nothings that are guilty of going along or do they have a plan to follow their leader? You just cannot have it both ways.

  • talesin

    Have you ever spoken to a German who apologized for their actions?

    Yes. His name was Martin S, a friend who I loved dearly (RIP Martin). He was in the merchant marine. His ship was torpedoed and sunk, and he watched shipmates die whilst waiting to be rescued - drowned and eaten by sharks. I kid you not. They were put in a POW camp in the SW USA till the end of the war. When he returned home and learned about the Final Solution and the camps, he emigrated, in shame, to Canada. He cried when we spoke of this. At the time, I was about 18, he in his 50s.

    A professional mental health care provider would likely profess recovery as an option for most.

    Actually, said MHCP may refer you to the DSMVI (? is that the latest version), and cognitive dissonance .

    There are previous threads on the subject, and Lady Lee may have some info floating around on this subject,,, in fact, I'm sure of it.

    Especially if one is a 'born-in' JW, and family programming and isolation were severe in the formative, pre-cognitive years (ie, before age 7-9), then one may indeed, have life-long issues. This does not preclude a so-called 'normal' life, as we all know everyone has 'issues'; however, the term recovery does suggest more of a complete reversal of the effects of the JW programming, and therefore may not be the conclusion of many MHCPs.

    Thank you for listening. ;)

    for Ter,, from DL/LB

  • quietlyleaving

    I agree that the "JW plan" works for some in that they have very strongly cultivated that part of themselves as a group and as indviduals and then allow only that side to be the most vociferous.

    I was reading something very interesting about the relationship between mythic thinking and cult formation in human development of consciousness/self consciousness. It looks to me that we are all capable of this sort of thinking in varying degrees, after all without the Germans Hitler would not have succeeded. But on the other hand Hitler was very very vociferous at a time when people were listening. One can also see though the power of mob thinking and mob rule.

    Imo cultic thinking and cult formation is never far away from human consciousness/unconsciouness and has both positive and a negative outcomes as, for instance, it has been a huge part of individuals seeing themselves as unique and as imbuing whatever they do as unique. There does not seem to be much evidence for animals doing this (well not to the extent or in the way humans do)

  • LouBelle

    Being a JW works for some.

    Being a thief, murderer or child molester works for others.

    All of these have plans in their respective fields and they are in those fields because that is where they want to be.

  • wobble

    I know two guys who are self-destructive in nature,have misused drugs and alcohol, for both of them the discipline of the fear of the DFing thingy works,keeps them clean.

    Another guy I know came from a totally disfunctional family,was not good at making friends, it seems to give him the support he needs.

    It looks to me as though it works on that level,at least for a time, I know other support mechanisms and organizations would probably do a better job,but for these three it seems to be working at present.



  • WTWizard

    Not when it gives people an incentive to kill their children (by giving them a shortcut into the New Dark Ages) or to enslave worldly children (at least it "saves" their lives because they will be witlesses when "It" does get here.

  • The Berean
    The Berean


    You're right, it does appear my volley is a contradiction ... the nature of this shot-gun approach is to to solicit as many points of view as possible until a consensus opinion surfaces. The question is not as to my ambiguous presentation but rather the effects of a "passivism" and "activism" on the world at large.

    I personaly, believe that the mindset of most JWs IS about the same as those Germans who tolerated Hitler ... Although ... to compare an illegal physical mass murderer such as Hitler to the activities of the common "bobbleheads" we see in the WBTS today, I believe, is like comparing apples to oranges. I guess I could have asked the board if it was true that "someone who stands for nothing will fall for anything"? Can any organization continue without eager followers with no other plan. My observation is that the JW pursuation does seem to work for those lacking the abilty to think for themselves. Is that healthy? Perhaps not. But it is the reality of our times ...

    Another question: lacking some percieved accountability to a Higher Power , no matter how controversial, would our world be worse off and in chaos? Of course there are extremists and exceptions who take advantage of the "silent majority."

    Finally, back to Hitler, I wish that people had come forth with an early "et tu, Brute" plan similar to what the US did to Saddam Hussein ... perhaps some disagree ...

  • BluesBrother

    There are some that I have known, the lonely, the inadequate, the sad depressed who have their lives improved no-end by becoming a Witness. They at last have a place to be. They have companionship. If they like the structured regime then it gives them order and a place to be at least twice a week. They find a pleasure in learning and a reassurance that they are not worthless.

    Of course they could no doubt find all of that and more in any other religion, without the bad sides of being one of J W's..But if they get to die with their faith intact, they die happy, if misguided..

  • PSacramento

    If people honestly believe that what they are in is THE TRUTH then yes, it will work for them.

    Of course one must define what "work for them" means.

    I know many people in the JW's that are very happy and don't even think to question the WT doctrine, they liek having their lives and routines semi-scripted for them, they like the regimental view of what is needed fo their salvation, they like the concrete evidence of being a "good christian", they like how they are "not lost" and have a "spiritual comminity" to go to.

    So yes it works for some to deny that is just silly, over 9 million people feel that "it works for them".

  • angel eyes
    angel eyes

    Yh being a jw works for me.....its hard though,but worth it :)

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