To: Ex-JW Women - Your Side

by Amazing 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SEAKEN2001

  Thanks for starting this thread Amazing.

  I am enjoying reading the comments of the women here. You have made me cringe, shake my head, laugh, and generally feel for your plight. What a shame that more of us men cannot seem to get it through the head that women are in many cases more capable than the men who get assigned to a particular duty, both in Church activity and society in general.

  I will always be appreciative to the many fine women who helped form my personality when a pioneer and bethelite. I never objected to being taught by a wise sister and have been imeasurably improved by listening to their advice.

  I especially squirmed when reading the part about helping with the chores and getting flowers for your wife. I do not do so good with this anymore and am ashamed that I don't try harder to help with the housework. My mom always had us boys working around the house and I learned to do the domestic chores very well so I have no excuse. Maybe it is partly that my wife, being an active JW, is trying to win me over without words, when in fact she's pissed that I just sit here and read and write on this computer. Hmmm, I guess I'll get up and clean the kitchen!

  Keep it coming ladies. Your expressions are very good.

  Sean
• 

  thinkers wife

  What an excellent topic. It is so healing to be able to say how we really feel and felt.
  But difficult to know where to begin. My father has been an elder on and off all of my life. To give him credit, he came from an extremely disfunctional non-Witness family. So love was a foriegn thing to him. My mother also a Witness, both parents pioneering Dad for over forty years, also came from an extremely disfunctional family.
  My father is a very take charge kind of guy. Extremely intelligent. Tends to see things in black and white and goes by the book. I have three younger brothers. One has not been a Witness since he was young. One is at Bethel with his wife and an elder. And one is a ministerial servant.
  I found out very young, that even though we had a pretty happy childhood, some things just weren't right. My father had difficulty listening to my mother and I. I can remember as a teenager really speaking up defending her to both my brothers and my father. I am very stubborn and determined. And I will be heard if I think I have something important to say.
  Then I married within the framework of the Witnesses. He was very controlling and abusive. I took a lot from him trying to make the marriage right. For many years I hid the abuse. He absolutely refused to make any decision that were important, which made my life very difficult.
  I was called into the library more times than I can remember being couseled about being in submission. My question to the elders was always the same. How can I be in submission when he let's all the responsibility of running the home and business up to me. I know it sounds strange to say he was controlling when he refused to make decisions. The thing was anything I decided on was always wrong and he made my life a misery for each and every thing.
  The elders were constantly on my back saying I needed to set a good example as a pioneer and a wife. I might as well have had a bed and kitchen in the library at the KH. The bane of their lives was, that whenever they would counsel me I would quote their own literature and the Bible to refute the limitations and rules they tried to pile on me. As a result, they couldn't stand me for the most part. I have found that as a whole JW men (and unfortunately some men in general) just cannot stand an intelligent, honest, outspoken woman. For some reason it make them feel uncomfortable.
  Because of these factors I seemed to lead a very lonely life as a JW. I found the women petty and jealous and impossible to form any lasting meaningful relationship with any of them.
  It was a very strange situation for me especially considering my personality. It wasn't until I really officially left the organization that I really started feeling like a real person that could truly add some meaning to my life and to others whom I touched.
  This is a very condensed version of how it has affected me. I almost totally concur with all the things the other brave and good women here have said before me. Just with a little different slant on things.
  Again, thank you for asking, talking about it can be very therapuetic.
  TW
• 

  Andee

  Hello all,

  I really don't have a story to share what it was like to be woman in the WTS. I was out long before I became an adult. However, reading the preceding experiences helps me to understand a bit better somethings I have noticed in my own upbringing, and even here on JW.com

  My Grandmother (Father's Mother) was a very dominating woman. Not just opinionated, but downright opressive at times, especially when it came to my Dad. My Father's parents did study, but never joined. My father did, and as a teenager, was baptised. I think that one of the things that attracted him was the dominant, unquestioned authority, males held within the WTS. He married my Mom when she was still a child of 14 at the KH and proceeded to be a tyrant of a husband, and later, father.

  I realize that there are many oppressive, controlling males are were never JWs. Yet, being on this board and reading other information, I realize how much the WTS sanctions and promotes this appalling behavior in it's male members. Any opinions and outspokeness from it's female members is quickly quashed. This sounds alot like my growing up experience. My Father tolerated NO opinions contrary to his in our house. He also demeaned my sister and I if we did get the courage to speak up. My sister tells me of the time when my Dad
  called her a "dumb broad" as a kid for some silly error she made.

  I could go on and on, but I realize that I am off topic already

  I have also noticed that the males on the board almost never post of having to fight depression while in the Org. It is nearly, if not always, the females. I wonder if it is not the most opinionated, and perhaps, intelligent, that suffer the most? We woman tend to internalize our anger and frustration, so I suppose I should not be suprised by my observation. It's also not suprising that the depression lifts upon leaving.

  Reading this has also helped me to understand myself a bit more. Both my sister and I struggled with depression. Neither one of us really came into our own until we were in our 30's. For most of our 20's we sputtered along attempting to come to grips with our oppressive and traumatic upbringing, which was influenced by the WTS doctrine.

  Now that I have turned 40, I think I have finally defined who I am. Freespirited, outspoken, opinionated, openminded, and blessed a wicked sense of humor.

  Thank you all for sharing.

  Andee
• 

  Mum

  I married a JW elder when I was 21 and he was 30. I was not attracted to him but had no prospects, nothing to look forward to, and most of my JW friends were already married.

  I believed I would come to love my husband because he would be kind to me. I told myself that marriages seemed to work better in societies where they were arranged, so "falling in love" was not that important. I also had been to those WT studies where "eros" was downplayed in favor of "agape."

  I became ill with a high fever after being married only a day or two and moving to another state with my new husband. I still get ill with a high fever whenever I am under undue stress, such as losing a job or being in any situation where I feel helpless. I cried a lot without knowing why. I just wished I could go back to my job. I was in a state of terror, but there was no real reason for it.

  Eventually, I adjusted, more or less, and settled into my new life. I pushed lots of things to the part of my mind where I put things I can't face.

  After three years, my daughter was born. From then on, I felt torn between my baby and my husband. When I went shopping, he had a fit because I left the baby with him for a whole hour. If she cried and I went to her, he would stop me. I came to hate him. I felt exhausted because there were so many expectations. My husband told me that "very little" was expected of women. It didn't feel that way to me. As the baby grew, I adjusted again. She was healthy and required less attention as she got older.

  I always tried to build up my husband, expressing profuse gratitude for every small attention, consideration or favor. Actually, I sometimes feel that I created a monster because I think he believed that he was really as wonderful as I told him he was.

  In retrospect, I understand my JW husband much better. His personality type is "drill sergeant." He has a compulsion to get others to shape up and fall in line. I am not cut out for a relationship with such a person. I felt like a rose with no water and a heat lamp on it 24 hours a day.

  I decided when my daughter was a toddler that I would like to take some classes to upgrade my job skills. My husband told me he didn't want me to take classes "right now." I was stupid, so I waited until what I thought would be a better time.

  However, after a couple of years, I realized that there was not going to be a better time. The real problem was that my husband was a high school dropout and I had 2 years of college, and he did not want me to have even more education.

  He refused to let me have any small part of my life for any activity that I enjoyed, while expecting me to do whatever he liked. I became deeply depressed. I had a flat affect. I could not laugh or feel happy. My daughter suffered.

  One evening my husband told me that I could go back to school in the fall if I would snap out of "this I-don't-care thing." I began to have hope. But when the time came, he didn't want me to go. My family was going to give me the money to take 2 classes. But my husband got angry because I had gone to the doctor. He woke me up at approximately 5:00 a.m. to "advise" me that I had promised him that my going back to school would not cost him anything, and he suspected that my trip to the doctor's office had been for the purpose of a pre-enrollment exam.

  The doctor had found that I had fibroid tumors and prescribed some medication to alleviate the symptoms. Fool that I was, I threw away the prescriptions. My husband asked me what happened to the prescriptions, and I told him. He looked a little fearful but did not pursue the matter any further.

  I decided I did not need his approval and not to allow him to manipulate me into not taking classes and/or getting a part-time job. We had an argument every day about my taking classes. I decided I would have to leave, but didn't have the strength.

  A JW friend helped me plan my escape. It was difficult economically, and, for my daughter especially, emotionally. But both my daughter and I now know that I did the right thing. I should have done it sooner.

  Seize the day, and put the least possible trust in tomorrow. - Horace

  I have learned to live each day as it comes and not to borrow trouble by dreading tomorrow. - Dorothy Dix
• 

  SixofNine

  ...It is nearly, if not always, the females. I wonder if it is not the most opinionated, and perhaps, intelligent, that suffer the most?

  lol. posessed of...er...blessed with a wicked sense of humor indeed, Andee.
• 

  Andee

  6 of 9,

  You found that funny? Interesting.

  Andee
• 

  VeniceIT

  *
  It is nearly, if not always, the females. I wonder if it is not the most opinionated, and perhaps, intelligent, that suffer the most?
  *

  Ohh how I've suffered .

  Well, this is a question that I'm not really sure how I'll answer!! I'll just start typing and see where it goes. I was 3rd gen JW on both sides. My mothers father had been a drunk all the time she was growing up. He was a horrible father verbally abusive and all that. But my grandmother always made the kids respect him. So my mother grew up thinking that's just how fathers where. So she was trained to treat men, fathers with respect which is something that she deeply ingrained in my sister and I. My father was very strong willed, was an elder as far back as I remember and was always busy with some kind of meeting, elders, rbc, hospital, conv etc... I was trained to treat all the brothers with respect, and I never had a problem with it. I think a lot of it has to do with your personality, I have a strong personality, shock!!!, but I'm not ambitious, and I'm very laid back. I never had a desire to do anything more then pioneer. I NEVER wanted to go to Bethel, or be a CO's wife or any of that. My dream I guess was to get married and pioneer till I had kids, being barefoot and preg, in the kitchen actually appealed to me. I was always very close to my mother, who is my closest friend at present, and she was always very submissive.

  Being as Dad was so active I grew up around all the elders, and was used to having the CO's and DO's and other prominent JW's around. My sister and I were always included in everything even as small children, and I was friends with a lot of Dad's elder peers. I was never intimidated by people, even the big shot's that came from Bethel. I remember Max Larson stayed at our house for a few days when I was in grade school. I would just go sit and talk to him, I didn't realize till later what a 'privilege' that was. I've always treated everyone the same no matter who they are. But I was always careful to keep my place. And I don't ever remember really being resentful of it. I would cringe at other sisters when I felt they were overstepping their bounds. The only time I remember it irritating me was when the brothers slaughtered the 'meetings for field service', I mean how hard is it to put 4-5 in a damn car??? I always did want to carry the mics, that did look fun, but I NEVER wanted to give hour talks, be an elder, or do the meeting parts so I thought hey as a JW 'I was smart enough to be born a girl'. That was basically my thoughts. I didn't have the responsibilities they had, I mean all I had to do was pioneer, guys were supposed to do that PLUS all that other stuff while supporting a family.

  I've changed a bit in my views, although it's only been a year since I've been out. I'm still rather old fashioned with my ideas of male and female roles, but I'm very self sufficient. I think I made the change a few years ago without realizing it. I always was taught and thought that I wanted to marry someone who was stronger then me: emotionally, spiritually, physically... To keep me in line But I realized few years back that I didn't want to marry someone to 'keep me in line' I was doing OK on that myself. I wanted someone who I was a friend with, a companion not someone how would be dominant. That was a real shock to me and I almost felt guilty. That's one reason I'm so glad I didn't get married when I was younger, because what I wanted out of life and marriage totally changed after I was about 22. I was interested in totally diff guys, instead of only looking at ones that were 'reaching out' or in good standing, I realized I wanted someone that was a nice guy that I could be friends with. I knew that your station in the JW's was not synonymous with character, which is what I was interested in, and still am. This was a bit of a shock for me to realize I wanted to be an equal, I wanted to be appreciated for my skills and talents and not just a servant.

  I was repressed without ever really knowing it at the time I guess ignorance is bliss! But now looking back I see how that really did affect me, but I was used to be around adults and elders and even as a young person was always well respected and thought of, and I think I was given more leeway then a lot of others. I wasn't trying to 'reach out' or be an elderette or anything like that. I was just outgoing and liked people of all ages and was taught to respect men, which I guess isn't a bad thing . I always did joke around with them though, fortunately most of them had a good sense of humor, you need that to be around me much at all I can be kinda brutal, but that doesn't mean I don't respect, your just good material.

  I'm not sure if this makes much sense but I'm just writing this out as the thoughts come to me and I'm way too tired to go back and re-read it sorry.

  Ven
  PS Elderette is not in the spell check for some reason hmmmm......

  "Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."
• 

  Andee

  Ok, Ok...

  I will explain what I meant by that comment. Since it has been quoted twice.

  My reason for wondering is that to be a highly intelligent, opinionated woman in the WTS must be extremely stressful. All the more that has to be stifled. The years of simmering resentment has to take it's toll. I read a post by Amnesian, and if I remember correctly, where a motion made by a brother and there were NO other brothers to second the motion, they were all in the parking lot. The only people in the hall were sisters and they just sat silently, unable to even second a silly motion. I believe her comment to her spouse was that "any sorry-ass brother was better than a sister". I hope I got that right, Amnesian .

  I can only imagine years of the years of witnessing this sort of sadly comical situation. By virtue of one's genitia, over and over, being shown, subtly, and many times, overtly, that any man, be he the most numb-skulled, pathetic excuse for a human being, is much more of an asset than any female. Especially, if her position of employment, in the world, includes having males as subordinates.

  I was thinking out loud, I suppose. It was intended as more of a rhetorical question. It was not my implication that woman of average, and less than average, intelligence do not suffer emotionally by the hands of the WTS. Some have, some do, and it will continue until the WTS, either changes beyond recognition, or falls completely.

  Andee
• 

  thinkers wife

  It is so weird that each and every women that posts to this subject states at least on thing that I can relate to. Personally I see a very common thread throughout the entire discussion.
  Andee, I agreed with your statement whole heartedly. I always say that in general life is easier for people of lower intelligence. In and out of the JW's. Why? Because they just don't get it and don't care. Just doesn't affect them.
  Factoring in all the specifics and under-workings of the org. it makes it extremely difficult for strong intelligent women.
  TW
• 

  Joyzabel

  Thinkers wife,
  I always envied people who rode the short bus to school, now I know why; "I always say that in general life is easier for people of lower intelligence. In and out of the JW's. Why? Because they just don't get it and don't care. Just doesn't affect them." lol I keep hoping alzheimers will set in so I can have fun in life! :) (please no offense by those who are truly suffering from alzheimers, my hats off to you and your families for coping with such a destructive disease)
  j2bf