To: Ex-JW Women - Your Side

by Amazing 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    This WT study article was really pathetic and alot of sisters in my hall picked up on it. For brothers, several avenues of service were listed. For single sisters, it basically listed none except looking after sick or elderly ones.

    *** w96 10/15 13-14 Singleness-A Door to Undistracted Activity ***
    18 Many single brothers who are already serving as ministerial servants are free to say to Jehovah: “Here I am! Send me.” (Isaiah 6:8) They can apply to attend the Ministerial Training School, which is reserved for single ministerial servants and elders who are free to serve where the need is greater. Even brothers who are not free to leave their congregation can make themselves available to serve their brothers as ministerial servants or elders.—Philippians 2:20-23.

    19 Single sisters, not having a human head to consult with and confide in, may be more apt to ‘throw their burdens upon Jehovah.’ (Psalm 55:22; 1 Corinthians 11:3) This is particularly important for sisters who out of love for Jehovah are single. If in time they do marry, it would be “only in the Lord,” that is, only to someone dedicated to Jehovah. (1 Corinthians 7:39) Elders are thankful to have unmarried sisters in their congregations; these often visit and help the sick and the elderly. This brings happiness to all concerned.—Acts 20:35.

    (It was sort of funny during this particular study because the page ended at the point where the paragraph stated "19 Single sisters, not having a human head ... " 'Alien' sisters were not impressed.)

    Path

  • hemp lover
    hemp lover

    Well, here goes . . my first post. cherry no more.
    I love this thread. I've laughed, I've cried, I've completely related. thinker's wife, andee, billygoat, i've especially appreciated your comments.
    i've watched smart, funny, brave women subjugate themselves to men who in many instances couldn't match wits with them for my entire life, well at least until May of 1998.
    One memory that haunts me is seeing the mother of my childhood best friend summoned to rub her elder husband's feet every night (or at least every time I was there), "WOMAN! FEET!" If she was busy, oh, i don't know, cooking, cleaning, scrubbing, etc. for her five children (oops, six, counting hubby)then it fell to one of the other females in the house OR they got a lecture about submission. She worked full-time outside the home as well, but if she didn't cook a dessert with the meal every night, then Jehovah disapproved of her. He used to make fun of my father and encouraged his children to do so as well when he found out that my dad actually cooked and cleaned on occasion. She was encouraged to stay with him, of course, through physical abuse as well, but after 25 years, she finally left. It's women like her I think of (and there are many) when I read these posts. Earthy, aware, and just as much or more going on upstairs than many people who happened to be born with penises instead of the other option.

    Other than being hit on occasionally by "brothers" who thought I was easy because I wore skirts that came to my knee or an inch or so above it, I never personally experienced the misogyny until I turned 19 and made public my childhood dream of going to Bethel. I was rejected on the grounds of being born a female.

    Thinker's wife: "It wasn't until I really officially left the organization that I really started feeling like a real person that could truly add some meaning to my life and to others whom I touched." Amen.

    Andee: "I wonder if it is not the most opinionated, and perhaps, intelligent, that suffer the most? We woman tend to internalize our anger and frustration, so I suppose I should not be suprised by my observation. It's also not surprising that the depression lifts upon leaving." Amen again. As devastating as it was to leave, an incredible burden was lifted from my shoulders. No matter how much you do, it's never enough. It IS true that the intelligent suffer the most. As my ex-husband, SixofNine, (a genuinely good person who happens to have a beard . . . BAD, BAD) once said after a cheerily inane comment by a particularly vapid sister, "Stupid people are happy."

    Okay, i'm stopping now. I must away with myself to partake of a "cigarette."

  • Andee
    Andee

    Hey Hemp!

    Glad you decided to lose your posting virginity!

    WELCOME!

    Andee

    Hey! Come on, ladies, let's hear from you!

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Hemp Lover,

    Hello! Welcome to this thread! We all are sisters in a way that no one else can fully understand!

    Welcome!

    IW

  • mommy
    mommy

    Path!
    ROFLOL, man oh man what I would have given to be in that study. I can't believe that they even put that in print!

    Single sisters, not having a human head to consult with and confide in, may be more apt to ‘throw their burdens upon Jehovah.’

    Yes, it is so hard for single woomenz not to have someone to tell us what to do. But they go visit the sick and elderly, so I guess they are good for something. And they wonder why men in the org continue to see woman as the lesser vessel.

    Welcome Hemp lover So we got your cherry...lol There is something about this topic that usually causes a burning desire for our voice to be heard. I was wondering why more woman haven't commented here. I have really enjoyed everyones comments so far.
    wendy

  • Flip
    Flip
    I wonder do ExJw men have problems overcoming the mentality of being better than women?

    I know how you felt as a subordinate person xena.

    Although the option was open to me, unlike your self, I never aspired to a position in the organization where others in the congregation allowed me to 'lord it’ over them.

    Invariably I also became a de facto 'lord-ee'.

    It’s during conversations like this I wished I knew what I know now, and played more head games with the congregational big shots. But, as they say, ‘an informed Jehovah’s Witness is either a disingenuous, dependent or former Jehovah’s Witness.’

    Flip

  • cellomould
    cellomould

    wow this sounds familiar:

    One memory that haunts me is seeing the mother of my childhood best friend summoned to rub her elder husband's feet every night (or at least every time I was there), "WOMAN! FEET!"
    the p.o. at my old hall mentioned cases like these. he said this stuff had even happened in our own hall! outrageous!

    perhaps this revelation was to save his own skin, although i can't imagine from what. his wife is truly an example of the 'submissive' type. i would see him put his hand on the back of her neck during every song. kinda like a leash! (his brother did the same with his wife.)

    i have lotsa respect for this woman, though, the p.o.s wife. she has been in the past a film and television, as well as broadway, actress/singer. very talented and beautiful lady.

    she asked me to dance once at a cong. picnic. ha! that was awesome. would do it again in a heartbeat! (nevermind that she's much much older than I. more fun that way!)

    cellomould

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

  • thinkers wife
    thinkers wife

    Welcome to the board HL. Seems this board draws strange bedfellows. Interesting to have two (I assume ex's in two different ways) literally and spiritually!!
    That feet story just made me sick. I went though all kinds of stuff with my ex. I guess the final indignity was when he went and told the elders I was with holding sex from him. By that time I was pretty immune to the degradation he put upon me. So when the elder came to me and confronted me with this abominable situation, I asked the elder what I should do, since obviously this man was not attractive in any way as well as screaming at me twenty-four seven. (Yes he even screamed abusives at me in his sleep I lie not) You know what that elder said? "Drink a lot of wine and then do it" I said, "You know what if you want him so bad you drink a bottle of wine and have sex with him" I have so many stories they would fill a book. But I won't bore you all with all of the details.
    Again, I am very impressed with the common thread I keep hearing here!! Keep it up ladies, it helps to know you weren't alone!!!!
    Hugs to all even the guys LOL,
    TW

  • ladonna
    ladonna

    I am really surprised at how much we all have in common with each other. The feelings expressed by all so far have each mirrored the other in feelings of opression.

    I left the borg rather young, but a while before I did, at age 15 I was brought before the elders on a false charge of fornication.
    I was supposed to tell them "the story". There were 5 men present. No women. They asked questions that were extremely intimate in nature and all I could feel was sheer fear of these men.

    Eventually I was believed but that led to a horror story of it's own that I seldom thinks of.
    I felt so insignificant at that meeting; so opressed; helpless.
    In fact, I think back and nearly all the males in authority actually scared me.

    Later as an adult, I look at my family (prior to my shunning) and see my mother as a trodden down woman with little say in the life she chooses to lead. I have questioned her on women not being useful for anything in the WTBTS and have received answers such as "The bible says that the man is the head of the house so that applies in the congregation as well".

    I give up.......I could go on and on, but the rest of the ladies have summed up my feelings as well or better than I could.
    Thanks to all others who have shared.....great thread.

    Ana

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    To each and every one who has responded with their story - My hats off to you all. I too fully understand the difficulties in being in that submissive role. I was smart enough to be aware of how ludicrous it was and that I could have done so much better than most of the men who were doing the leading. I was frequently counseled by my now ex-husband to be more submissive at home (although if I had followed his direction I probably would have been doing the "Woman Feet" thing too. The elders, my mother and other sisters all counseled me to keep my place. Guess submission just was never for me.

    Before I became a JW I lived in an extremely abusive home and fear of men was instilled very early in life. Unfortunately for me - at the time - I was also instilled with a very healthy sense of right and wrong and justice and yes a brain that fully functioned when I let it.

    After my mother became a JW (and single parent to 4 kids) we all struggled with the submission thing. She had to be in submission but could not be since she was a single parent. She would repeatedly ask for the elders to send someone to study with her sons who needed a male role model (guess on how to take the lead so they could grow up to be real men in the org). The elders would decide that since god had given her this position of leadership in her home (and he had not seen fit to give her another husband to be in subjection to) then she needed to be in subjection to the will of the elders who said it was her job to train her children in their respective roles.??? Confused??? So were we.

    My mother and I found our positions difficult most of the time. For a while we had the book study in our home - a home where there was no adult male. So we had to rely on other men to come into our home to conduct the study and FS meetings. If no male showed up then we usually defered to the woman who had been a JW the longest and since I had brothers living at home the sisters would have to find something to put on their head - sometimes a dish-towel. How ridiculous is that. Sitting there taking the lead (and most often doing a great job of it) with a dish towel on your head because the males in the room are 6 and 7 years old.

    MY mother later arranged a marriage for me with a really newly baptized brother - so new that he was baptized 1 week before the wedding. Being in submission to my mother - I obeyed and married this man - boy really. MUM I could definitely relate to you on this one. I knew 2 weeks after the wedding it was a terrible mistake. After 3 months I begged my mother to let me come home. Her response was "You made your bed - lie in it" Hmmm thought she was the one who had arranged this but oh well.

    I was now trapped with this man I barely knew and who was learning how to be a "good husband taking the leadership role in the family". Well here I was after years of being away from my father (the tyrant) and now having to be submissive to a male again - who also turned out to be a tyrant. Interesting how she picks them.

    I set out to be the perfect wife and mother. We eventually had two daughters. I pioneered a wee bit and I do mean a wee bit since I detested going door to door. I had everybody - absolutely everybody - husband children mother friends and the congregation convinced that we were the perfect JW family. People would tell me that when they goit married they wanted a family like ours. I always felt sick to my stomach when they told me that. I knew a very different story at home. Even there I never voiced my opinion on things always deferring to my husband. He was convinced that he was the epitome of a perfect husband and he had total control of his perfect little family.

    As he progressed to MS and eventual elder his dominance increased. He used the Bible as a weapon to control us all. Lectures and sermonizing at home on how to behave in the proscribed manner were regular occurrances. At all times his image as an elder and our image as JWs both inside and outside the cong took precidence over what was in the best interests of the children or family. It always boiled down to appearances and what other people would think. We lived with this double standard of loving family outside the home but inside was screaming and yelling. He would go on tirades of yelling and more than once I had to drag him out of the girl's rooms when he became physically abusive to them. He insisted on silence when he was preparing a talk - which was most of the time. He was frequently out doing cong work or on service leaving the girls and I at home - thank goodness we were not dragged everywhere.

    I had an especially hard time after I learned sign language and became an interpreter in the cong for the deaf group that was in our hall. One of my taks was to teach others how to sign. It was easy with the sisters but then some brothers decided that they wanted to learn. There was a huge discussion of wheather I would be allowed to teach sign language to the brothers in the cong. One of the elders decided this was most inappropriate and he went off to learn sign language from the deaf brothers. He then would teach the other brothers how to sign and I could still teach the sisters. Only problem was that he was a terrible signer - very awkward in his movements and not at all comfortable with it. Added to this was that he seemed to think that if he made enough facial expressions or leaned forward enough he would get what he was saying across better - very comical and annoying to watch. Well this is how he taught the other elders to sign. No small wonder the deaf group prefered when the sisters signed for them.

    Now one of my biggest problems with this is that while a brother was signing I was not allowed to correct him if he was using the wrong sign for something. One person signed a whole talk using the sign for circumsion instead of circumstance - think about it - the whole thing became meaningless. To help out the deaf group I quietly signed to one of the sisters that the correct sign was circumstance and she was able to quietly get the message through to the rest of the group. It was situations like this that got me into the most difficulty as a JW.

    So at home or in the hall I was often faced with the ridiculousness of this submission thing. At home my nose was rubbed in it daily

    Now I am free.

    After I left the JWs I went to school. After a lifetime of being told I was inferior and stupid, this high-school drop-out graduated with honors - most often one of the top 3 in the class. I had to get used to my voice in a classroom and took a course on speech-giving and found a strong and intelligent voice inside of me. Now I lecture wherever I am invited. I have been on radio and TV - in newspapers and magazines using my voice to talk about all forms of abuse including spiritual abuse.

    And now I am on the net hehehe

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