What really matters to the elders- Podcast 9 Judicial Hearing

by Hobo Ken 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Hobo Ken
    Hobo Ken

    This is the next part of the story, when the Judicial Hearings begin. Click on the link here to listen...deathorobedience.blogspot.com

    Also free on itunes here

    Two elders turned up at my door and got me out of bed on the 17th of January on a Saturday morning to tell me that they had a "charge" of "apostasy" against me and named the two "witnesses" who were bringing the accusation as Paul Barrie and Ronnie Hunter and the hearing was scheduled for the Wednesday night. (21st)

    I quickly got a version of the docbob letter in to them the next day at the meeting which is in the post below.( the importance of the letter will become clear later especially point 18)

    This stalled them for a day or so but they called and said it would still be going ahead on the Wednesday as planned.

    This is the first part of the first Judicial.

    Enjoy.

    Matt.

  • Hobo Ken
    Hobo Ken

    Dear Brothers,

    Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to call in to see me on Saturday. I want to take this opportunity to state my intentions regarding your request for me to attend a meeting with yourselves on 21/01/09 at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses. The following points are for your consideration prior to me agreeing to meet with you ;

    1. I shall be notified in writing of the time, place and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.

    2. I shall be notified in writing of the exact purpose of the meetings.

    3. I shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting: the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation , the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    4. If any other agency other than the one for whom the judicial committee has informed me they are acting for is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, I will consider the judicial committee as acting in their behalf.

    5. I shall be notified in writing as to my status as a member of any and all of the organizations for which the committee is acting or to which the committee will report.

    6. I insist that the judicial committee immediately cease, and in the future desist from any actions toward or against me in behalf of any corporation or organization of which I am not a member.

    7. I shall be notified in writing of any accusations against me, the names of persons making such accusations and the substance of any evidence against me.

    8. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the judicial process.

    9. I shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.

    10. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during all meetings between me and the judicial committee as an observer. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the judicial committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the Legal Department of the International Bible Students Association or any other legal corporation, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    11. During the meetings with the judicial committee I and/or my observer will be allowed to take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    Additionally, if the judicial committee takes any judicial action against me;

    12. I will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    13. In this written communication the judicial committee must state exactly on whose behalf they have taken the action, specifically the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    14. If the judicial committee has stated that it is acting only for the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies of reports to anyone outside the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    15. I may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.

    16. Before I will meet with an appeal committee, that committee must notify me in writing of the names of all of the members of the appeal committee and who each one represents: the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or it’s legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    17. There shall be no contact between the judicial committee and the appeal committee other than to inform them of the time and place of my meetings with them. If I determine that there is any contact, communication or attempt on the part of any of the members of the original judicial committee or anyone acting on their behalf to, in any way prejudice or sway the appeal committee, I will insist that a new appeal committee be formed.

    18. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the appeal process.

    19. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during the all meetings between me and the appeal committee. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the appeal committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    20. During the meetings with the appeal committee I and/or my observer will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    21. I will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    22. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action, specifically the Bishopbriggs Congregationion of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    23. If the appeal committee has stated that it is acting only for the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the appeal committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the Bishopbriggs Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    24. I understand that if I am disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee that I am, at that point, no longer considered to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I also understand that it is necessary to make a brief announcement that I have been disfellowshipped. From then on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat me differently from any other person that is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a serious violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any present Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun or avoid me, cease or otherwise modify their doing business with me, or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental, mortgage, or any other legal agreement that I may presently have with them. I may consider such to be an infringement of free trade and may initiate appropriate legal action.

    25. I consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and myself and the appeal committee and myself to be ecclesiastically privileged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by me to be a breach of that privilege and may result in legal action. This includes any announcements beyond the fact of my disfellowshipping, speeches, talks, or any other communication, written or oral, public or private.

    Yours faithfully and discreetly,
    Matthew J. Barrie

  • Hobo Ken
    Hobo Ken

    Bttt

  • watson
    watson

    Considering that they were talking to an apostate, I thought you and they were very respectful...so far.

  • besty
    besty

    classic signature on the docbob letter

    faithfully and discreetly,

    damn wish I'd thought of that

  • ninja
    ninja

    time again to hit the wasps nest with a stick

  • Hobo Ken
    Hobo Ken

    >Watson

    If I didn't remain respectful and calm I would have said something which could have ended the whole charade before it even got properly under way which was not my intention.

    I wanted a platform to let people hear their ridiculous process for themselves.

    >ninja

    It's that time again eh......I hear Yer man Ron is looking a little worn these days...

    >Besty

    I couldn't stop laughing as I thought of that one and how they would all be reading it together as a body and then getting to the end of the letter....lol.

    Matt.

  • ninja
    ninja

    ronnie was looking a tad weary....

  • besty
    besty

    any of you scots lads remember a JW girl in Glasgow called Mhairi Hunter?

  • scotsman
    scotsman

    No, just Mhairi Cameron.

    Nice clear recording btw Matt. Superficially it's reminding me of how much I hated veing called "brother".

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit