The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

by gubberningbody 60 Replies latest jw friends

reniaa

hi vinny
hmmm you allow that I can choose Jws because I think they teach the purest biblical message of this time but condemn them because they do not allow all roads lead to God?
Where is your proof that we can change bible teachings and still recieve the kingdom?
You are wrong you know Jw's do not just say they themselves will be saved they say the dead will be resurrected and the earth judged itself according to God's wishes through his son.
You have bought into the idea that I should think other faiths can also believe in God generally and be saved but then where does it say that in the bible?
the bible says their is one truth and one way. Jesus being the way we go but even if I narrow it down to all of christianity Once a different God was worshipped and preached too how accountable for that is Christendom?
Jesus is the Judge but if I personally want to be saved choosing a religion that has confidence in it's message and that it's beliefs reflect the bible in these times. How can you call this a sin. Saying other different messages could be right is doubting the bible? The Bible tells me their is One Almighty God Jehovah and he has a son called Jesus well I believe it. If I choose to be in and believe that the One religion in this time that actually preaches this is the correct one and is blessed by spirit to be that way then what scriptural proof have you that any more than one will be chosen?
Reniaa
DaCheech

spike has changed his writing style and his story too!
reniaa = spike
Spike Tassel

Spiritual people are able to remain united, and play off each others as they look to bring out the upbuilding qualities of both themselves and others (especially of Jehovah and Jesus Christ), so that we may all grow in our accurate knowledge and union under Jehovah and the one Leader He has appointed (Matthew 23:10) as our Chief Shepherd. Reniaa and I appear to have become "friends at first sight". We are sister and brother spiritually speaking, ministering here to one another and within our respective circles of contact as the spirit of holiness allows each of us.
DaCheech

on a apostate website.
look, agape among apostates, how cute
Vinny

AND THIS IS WHERE YOU KEEP GETTING SPANKED!!!
Neither you nor Spike nor any other JW that I have ever encountered or debated with can defend this sorry nonsense: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm with God somehow choosing only Watchtower and using onlyWatchtower for providing food at the proper time to only JW's.
This is where you cross the line, lose badly and then get buried and spanked all on the same thread.
Why not just say this is a good religion for me and leave it at that?
Why arrogantly teach that you must be a JW, JW's are the truth, God uses only JW's, JW's are God's people all the while you have pages and pages of PROOF that God never chose the JW's for anything, never got all those things wrong for 100 plus years and has not picked the Watchtower for anything at all.
This is your problem. And this is where you are in denial. And what you run away from again and again.
The JW religion is just that another religious institution and nothing more. The facts prove this again and again over and over.
JW's preach (((THE JW))) message Reniaa.
You know the one that said (in writing) that the end would come in 1914, 1925, 1975, before the generation of 1914 died, the year 2000. The JW message that forbids blood transfusions, that forbidded organ transplants, vaccinations, alternative service etc etc etc.... The one that says no beards, no holidays, no school sports or plays, no cub scouts, no red cross, no salvation army etc etc etc

THAT is not the biblical message at all.

And remember this fact: Before JW's ever showed up on the scene, Christianity was already GLOBAL!!! Now how did that happen do you suppose?
I am telling you that God's hand is with my life. Now how does that happen Reniaa if I left his organization??
I would be delighted to have proven to me that the Watchtower is what I thought it was for 15 years. I have debated with some of the most capable JW's in many places. But the results just prove what I have already known for some time; that the JW religion is not what they say about themselves.

It's not a matter of my winning anything. It's truly a matter of putting the issues on the table and with an open mind coming to reasonable conclusions based on the whole range of facts and information.
I have proven to myself (and my family as well as God Himself) that I am willing to be WRONG.That I am willing to be adjusted. That I can accept new information regardless of the consequences.

After all I became a JW.

And then I was willing to leave the JW's despite heavy consequences.

What else do you need to see to realize I am willing to be proven wrong... or right... whatever the case may be.

Truth is worth the effort and or consequences for me.

That's what this journey called life is all about.

And my Heavenly Maker knows this because I talk about it every day that I am alive. But you guys think I am some kind of godless apostate. Whatever works I guess.

I did it too for 15 years.
One thing we can all agree on is that God was sure not behind any of this: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm

And THAT is the Watchtowers baby for life Reniaa!

If the bible is true Jesus did many amazing things to prove God was with him.

If the bible is true Moses did many amazing things that prove God was with him.

And this sorry list is what JW's have to prove God is with them today??

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
All from their own literature.

The printed page tells it like it is Reniaa!

Like I've said many times now; the Watchtower's greatest enemy today is its own literature.
Vinny
Vinny

Why are some today opposed to Jehovah's Witness and their policies Reniaa and Spike? Dead People is why. Ruined lives is why. False prophecies is why. A controlling Religious Institution is why. They are WRONG ON BLOOD TODAY. They are WRONG ON SHUNNING for merely walking away today. They are WRONG 607 BCE and 1914. They were WRONG ABOUT Vaccinations, Organ Transplants, Alternative Service, End of World Predictions, marital infidelity rules, rape, beards, 1935 and too many things to bother listing here. Did God make all of these sorry decisions to force on all the JW's, and then change his mind? Or did a few old men sitting around in some Brooklyn office make these bad decisions, force them on all JW's and then change their mind? Does God serve Bad Food like this? Perhaps He is not a very good cook? If the bible is true then CHRISTIANITY IS GOD"S ORGANIZATION TODAY. That would mean being a follower of Christ. Not some fraction of Christianity, that has the absolute WORST record of them all in terms of false predictions, doctrinal, medical and oftentimes wacky published as "Food from God" teachings during the past 100 years. Shunning for disagreements is NOT scriptural. Shunning for walking away from the JW faith is NOT scriptural. This is a control mechanism. And it works. It is a gross misapplication of scripture to keep the average JW in line. One cannot even think differently. I WAS a JW, and an elder as well, until recently. I am very familiar with how they are actually WORSE than most other faiths today. I am shunned for walking away. People today and for the last 80 years have died, without reason, due to the WT medical policies forced on all JW's. Each week is filled with a list of JW obligations that basically OWN YOU. You are told what you can read, what movies are acceptable, what association is acceptable, facial hair is okay. What you can celebrate and cannot. What words you are allowed to use. What is allowed in your own bedroom with your wife.
And too many other things to list here again. They are not better than most religions for me after coming to know all the facts. Before knowing all the facts and believing they were God's True Channel (as only JW's say about JW's) one can go a very long way to justify all of these things. Take away that one true faith belief and so falls the rest. I have been there and done all that. Vinny
allelsefails

Reniaa - Thank you for at least answering my question. I really appreciate it. I would like a little clearer definition of where authority of the WTS comes from in your thinking and research. Apostalic Succession seems to be the only legit scriptural claim to authority anyone has. (Again I DON'T believe anyone has this authority today.) What is the Scrpiptural grounds for authority that the WTS has in your mind?
Also I think it interesting that you can look at a group and find one doctrine you don't believe in and reject the entire organization based on that one doctrine. Chritadelphians = Satan / Mennonites = Trinity. (By the way I have made it clear I don't believe in "organizational" Christianity - I believe in "Congregational" Christianity = Power from the bottom up not from the top down.
Mennonites are recognized more universally than JWs as peacekeepers never wavering in their rejection of violence and war. They are also known far more than JWs for their relief effort in times of disaster.
Christadelphians reject the Trinity but do take some things in scripture as figurative - like Satan. But they take some things as more literal - like the returning of New Jerusalem to Earth in Revelation.
It would take no time at all to list a dozen things the FDS have written and approved that violate scriptural principles or were proven totally false.
Can't you see why rejecting them is even easier than your rejection of Christadelphians?
Spike Tassel

Jehovah has had the Bible written by holy people so that all may conform to His will and purposes. There will be one religion for all, just as the waves cover the very sea. As to the dates that have come and gone, I draw our attention once again to 1 Corinthians 13 from Jack J. Blanco's Clear Water paraphrase, [clarifications mine].
8. The kind of selfless love that Christ had will never become obsolete, but one day prophesying will [become obsolete], as will the gift to speak in different languages, and even much of what we've learned.
9. The reason for this is simple. Our knowledge is not complete and our prophesying gives us only a small glimpse of the future.
10. Whe the end comes and God gives us complete knowledge of things, then that which is partial and incomplete will pass away.
12. When we compare our present life to the future life, we are seeing only the reflection of things, but then we will see and understand things about ourselves as clearly and [as] perfectly as God understands and knows us now.
13. The only things that are important in life and that really count are faith in God, hope for the future, and having the kind of love for others that Christ had. These are the only three qualities that really matter, and the greatest of these is having the love that Christ had.
Vinny

Not so fast Spike.
Folks our new resident JW Spike Tassel wants to chalk all those WT mistakes (((( FOR OVER 100 + YEARS NOW ))) up to some good ole new light getting brighter nonsense.
He believes that God is with WT-world despite all the mistakes and embarrassments costing JW lives, JW careers, JW families, JW prison time, and more. Spike Tassell is in sad shape here as we will now see. He quotes 1 Cor 13 and says that, "knowledge is not complete". So that somehow means God is with WT world ONLY , but not with any other christian religion or people of those religions regardless of how spiritual or devoted to God and Christ they are today. ONLY (((THE JW'S))) GET THIS FREE PASS TODAY because he quotes 1 corinthians 13. HOW BOUT THAT! With powerful reasoning like this, there must be a LOOONG line to sign up for new JW's. But where are they. I don't see them here in JWN. Maybe they are all sleeping Spike. Maybe they are watchinhg movies today Spike. Everybody makes mistakes personally. As I have said many times. But WT land goes FAR BEYOND JUST MAKING MISTAKES (((PERSONALLY))). They (((COLLECTIVELY))) ---- ((((( PUBLISH )))) those mistakes, ((((( AS "FOOD FROM GOD" ))))) --THEN force them on all JW's,-- WITH THREAT OF DISFELLOWSHIPPING-- and and then say God is directing ONLY them. You just gotta love that. IF GOD'S SPIRIT WAS LEADING THE JW'S THEN THE TEACHINGS WOULD NOT JUST BE BELIEVED TO BE TRUE... THEY WOULD IN FACT (((((BE TRUE))))). I guess God's "spirit", that was prayed for by the JW's just wasn't up to the task those days. I guess God just purposely MISLEAD all those JW's so that later on God could "refine" them. Is that what happened Spike? With powerful logic like this from Spike who needs Vinny? Or anybody else? What a mess they have on their hands today. Got an extra week free, then just enjoy some more of this: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm Yep God's spirit was sure with those JW's alright! The printed page tells it like it is. Printed WT Pages are the JW's BIGGEST PROBLEM TODAY. But then that same "God's spirit" leading JW's (as Spike and Reniaa believe) obviously must have misled those JW's. Cause JW's sure got lots of things wrong and embarrassed themselves too many times to count. JUST TAKE A LOOK AGAIN: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm Folks this is exactly why many JW's come to their senses and say, "Nope the JW's aint for me". Spike and Reniaa IGNORE all the facts placed in their laps. Many pages worth. They instead tries to say that since some bible folks made mistakes that JW's are proven to be God's organization and light gets brighter nonsense. This is completely WORTHLESS. As has been proven many times now. So folks let's all do a little math from JW's! According to JW's, "God's spirit" is with the JW's while they make decisions based on God's infallible word. Those decisions are wrong again and again and again. Proving embarrassing mistakes for WT world, causing people to lose out on many things like buying homes, getting education, not having families, kids, pets, not being of 144,00, and more. Those decisions led by the same "God's spirit" also cause some JW's to (((DIE))) and to go (((TO PRISON))) for no reason for many years including RIGHT NOW. A n d t h e FACTS show that WT world is wrong RIGHT NOW on many things. But somehow all this light getting brighter as excuse for mistakes does not apply to any other sincere Christians or Christian denominations. ONLY TO JW'S!!!
But JW's seem forget some things like: 1914 came and went. 1925 came and went. Beth Sarim (was huge WT embarrassment) and came and went. 1975 came and went. The generation of 1914 came and went. The 20th century came and went. Vaccinations stomped out polio, diptheria, tetanus, flu, cholera, measles, mumps, yellow fever, rubella and more. Organ transplants were never the same as "cannibalism" as Wt land stated and have saved or extended hundreds of thousands of lives. Many times dropped doctrinal understanding has been brought back. That aint not "light getting brighter" folks. That's called BLINKING LIGHTS. You see this is why Spike and Reniaa are fighting a losing battle. The WT was never God's anything. One look at the whole picture proves this without a doubt to any rational mind. But change is tough for some. It is not easy to see the truth for some JW's. All the best, Vinny
Spike Tassel

There is both spirit and truth required. In line with Jehovah, and Galatians 5:22,23. How is condemnation going to help me, Vinny? What interchange of encouragement and enlightment can you offer? How do you expect to be rescued from sin and death, Vinny?

The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

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