Raymond Franz and UN

by kpax 150 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  JT

  TR says

  all I remember hearing about Ray was that he was evil, and tried to take over the WTS! LOL! I think this is what the average JW thinks when they hear the name "Ray Franz."
  _________
  yep the image that wt has painted of this man is unreal

  the need to kill folks character is the key to wt keeping it's members from listening so many times

  many jw who have read the book looking to see if he focused on isolated cases of bad behavoior would be able to merely say
  well 0k this bro did do this or that and that is wrong, but it has nothing to do with the org you can find bad apples everywhere

  instead ray focused on the key issue

  WT AS A WORSHIP SYSTEM- - he showed that the entire foundation that the WT system is built on is flawed

  as i have often stated in my view i think wt would hav been just fine IF THEY HAD STUCK WITH BIBLE COMMENTARY

  they got into trouble when russell decided not to nipe it in the bud as soon as he heard folks talking about he was the fullfill ment of some bibel text matt24:44-46

  that is when they got into trouble in my view-- as long as they were merely bible students/researchers who were publishing what they found- no hell ,no christmas, etc they were find, but when they climbed up into the "Seat of Moses" that is when the Sh!t hit the fan

  james
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  JT

  Madapostate

  I actually understand exactly where you are coming from, but i too feel much like others who have posted,

  It is as if (and i stand to be corrected) you feel that someone
  "Owes you something"

  1. What else do you personaly feel that you need
  to know about WT in order for you to feel satisfied?

  2. Would you like more details about the inner workings, etc?

  3. Would you like to hear more about the indivual persons
  lives on the GB. ETC?

  I'm trying to understand what you feel that you don't already know.

  will he take stuff to his grave - o yea, but why do you feel he "Owes
  more to you or the rest of us-

  Why are you not satisfied that he has provide you and I along with so many others the tools needed to find freedom.

  allow me to ask this last question

  "Do you believe in an all Loving and all Knowing God?"

  thanks for your thoughts

  james
• 

  anewperson

  In his In Search Of Christian Freedom, Ray Franz said he didn't he that things like voting or the UN's working for world peace were unChristian. And in terms of speculation, which is all that is offered here anyway, I believe as said he is only mildly interested in the UN liason thing.

  Bill Bowen recently said the Watchtower Society had threatened to expose that Bill had been deleted as an elder for 1-2 years, even though Bill explained this was because he had had the nerve to not go along with "something" a Circuit Overseer was wanting him to do which he felt would have compromised his - Bill's - standard of staying honest and holding onto his integrity.

  At least as far back as William Schnell who wrote Thirty Years A Watchtower Slave, Schnell mentioned that then President of the Watchtower Society JF Rutherford kept a file on Schnell with dirt in it that was actually distortions of facts on the order of "I'm told that you like to kiss them girls in the congregations, William."

  After Ray Franz was given the boot, the WTS mentioned in a Daily Text that some high up officials had been into homosexuality and engaged in "wife-swapping."

  My guess is the WTS may have trumpted up, false stuff they have hung over Ray Franz, threatening him with it, just as true from the time of Schnell all to way to this very second. Franz knows they keep such dirt handy and that that is all that it is -- distortions, lies, perversions, but he is tired of the nonsense.

  At age 85 he has other priorities now, like his family and preparing to meet his Grand Creator. He knows that younger persons are coming forth to do battle with the dragon. He had helped that dragon out of ignorance when he wrote The Truth That Leads To Everlasting Life ("the blue bombshell"), served as editor-compiler of the AID book precursor to the Insight volumes etc; but sincerely sought to make up for it with Crisis Of Conscience and In Search Of Christian Freedom.

  His ISCF book blue-printed, predicted and in various ways helped spark the rise of the "Free Christians" movement that continues even now. We are indebted to Ray Franz, and if there are things he does not or can not freely reveal about the WTS even now, then we understand, and regardless wish him well.

  Think about it.
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  one

  Ray Franz left the WT office in 1980

  Application to the UN was in 1991 when his uncle, Fred Franz was either dead or about to die.
• 

  larc

  Mad Apostate,

  On page 598 of In Search of Christian Freedom, Ray Franz tells of theft of organizational funds, theft of personal property among the broters, adultry, alcholism, and the use of prostitutes (by one person) at high levels in the organization. Do you want him to supply names? If so, would you be willing to provide the names on this forum of people you have known at the local level who have committed these or other sins/crimes? Also, would you provide your name and address here, as Ray did in his book? If not, why not? I forgot to check, but as I recall, you have a blocked e mail. If so, why?
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  avengers

  UR wrote: "Many ex-JW's that I am beginning to notice are in fact never satisfied."

  What kind of statement is this? I still have family in this so called TRUTH. I will be satisfied when this fundamental religion has its claws out of my family. I will be satisfied when I see thier ideas burn in Hell! Including their fancy Halls and buildings which they show on their slide-shows. Never satisfied? Youre damn right.
  

  Hello brothers and sisters, where are you now?
  (Simple Minds)

  Besides this. I still think that if RF knows anything he should come forward. Even if he were 90. I recall many of the GB were in their 90's.
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  Farkel

  MadApostate,

  : Only an idiot like yourself could read my post and conclude that it is presented as conclusive fact rather than my own speculation.

  I challenge you to show any words of mine that "concluded you presented your thoughts as conclusive fact." You can't. I even put your word "likely" in quotes to show I aware aware you were speculating. Therefore you are either a liar, or tossing the biggest strawman I've even seen into my statement.

  Farkel

  "I didn't mean what I meant."
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  Farkel

  MadApostate,

  : However, IMO, to say that he owes the world no more, just doesn't cut it.

  Spoken like a true blood-sucker. I can just imagine you at his death bed with your hand on his throat and shaking him as he is gasping for his last few breaths saying, "Don't die before you tell me everything you know. You OWE it to me because you were an evil GB member. Goddamn it, you OWE it to me."

  He doesn't owe you or anyone else shit. It's between him and his maker.

  Farkel

  "I didn't mean what I meant."
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  Room 215

  Hi all,

  My 2 cents on Ray: I know him fairly well, and while he hasn't articulated it to me in as many words, I'm certain he considers the WT experience a closed chapter in his life and wants to move on. To do otherwise suggest that the Watchtower experience continues to dominate and define his life.

  He seems to have come to the conclusion that what he's said in two volumes is all that needs to be said. Having dealt thoroughly with the overriding issues of concern to him, any further writing would have to necessarily consist of personal anecdotes, and likely smack of obsessing over the past.

  Even in his current silence, he sets a fine example; we all would do well to leave our JW past in the past whee it belongs, and move on.
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  Joyzabel

  Hi rm215,
  "Even in his current silence, he sets a fine example; we all would do well to leave our JW past in the past where it belongs, and move on."

  I agree. We alone are responsible for ourselves, our learning, our future and what we want it to be. j2bf

  ps, sorry, spelling errors