Is the Downfall of Jehovah's Witnesses More Important Then You?

by AllTimeJeff 82 Replies latest jw friends

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Hey, Spike and everyone,

    My point is really simple, and the evidence is abundant: JW dogma ruins lives. My intent in starting this thread was a discussion on how those in their post JW phase deal with it? Do they spend an exorbitent amount of time trying to somehow bring the group down? Or do they spend time "on themselves?

    That was it. Having a JW come on internet forums like this and say things like JW's are humble, et al, means nothing. Hell, most of us had elders tell us the same thing, often with more skill. (I used to be an elder, so I know the game)

    Thanks Spike for wishing healing and peace. Rest assurred that such a feat will come in spite of anything and everything we have learned about Jehovah, not because of the invisible, fake god you worship.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi Jeff,

    Hi there Stephen. Yes, I am well aware of the words attributed to Jesus here. I am very much a fan of the man known as Jesus, although I find no reason to worship the legend. But I appreciate your motives....

    That's cool. I thought Jesus was cheesy for years. In fact the mention of His name would make me cringe. Now I boast about Him!

    Anyhow, I pray you are a fan of His words here :)

    Mark 1:15 (New International Version)

    15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Thanks Stephen. When I find a reason to repent, I will look him up....

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    Spike Tassel (Post 73) to AllTimeJeff (Post 1677): I don't find dogma worthwhile either, whether it's JWs with dogma or Catholics with dogma or evolutionists with dogma, etc. Personally, I'm here on JWN to work through myself, and deal with all the responses I get. I find that I'm on quite a "steep learning curve" to attempt to think through and adapt to all the different reactions in a coherent fashion. Unlike your "experience as an elder", I find this communication exercise to be much more real than any "game". I'm interested in learning the language of hearts, while I'm attempting to worship the very real God we all must learn from to live a truly successful, deeply satisfying life (Mat.4:4,7,10).

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi Jeff,

    Thanks Stephen. When I find a reason to repent, I will look him up....

    I pray the Holy Spirit brings you one before too long, that's His department, not mine :)

    John 16:7-8 (New International Version)

    7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:

    1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 (New International Version)

    4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • winstonchurchill
    winstonchurchill

    Posts like this is the reason I'm here. People like ATJ and many others make it worth.

    I've come to the conclusion -at least in MY case- that being out or in is irrelevant. I'm in, I believe in many things, I strongly disagree with many others, but over all, I don't believe WTB&TS is in any way God's official channel of communication. In that way, JW are already 'fallen' to me; just like they teach Babylon 'fell' in 1919 by losing its power over people, well WTB&TS "fell" long ago as it has lost it's power over me.

    I have said it before: I have much more in common with ATJ, AKJ, OTWO, Outlaw and many other egregious "apostate" posters, than with the couple of lunatics that defend the WT around here and techinically I should call "sisters"; (And yes, I'm in love with Rebel8, LouBelle and the "Sally Sparrow" girl).

    This site has filled a void, a void that attending meetings and hanging around with my good and beloved JW's friends won't fill. I think is an intellectual and humanistic void. Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating (probably I am), and that I'm selfish for getting away with the best of both worlds.

    Going to other church? I don't think so. To me the problem is with religion in general. Not an agnostic, much less an atheist, but the biggest beef I have with WTS I have with almost every religion: THEY NEVER SAY "I DON'T KNOW". They need to have an answer, and explanation and a position for everything, from oral sex to hickeys, form polygamy to vaccines, from dinosaurs to global warming... it never ends.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Responses to responses

    Spike Tassell said

    Personally, I'm here on JWN to work through myself, and deal with all the responses I get. I find that I'm on quite a "steep learning curve" to attempt to think through and adapt to all the different reactions in a coherent fashion. Unlike your "experience as an elder", I find this communication exercise to be much more real than any "game". I'm interested in learning the language of hearts, while I'm attempting to worship the very real God we all must learn from to live a truly successful, deeply satisfying life (Mat.4:4,7,10).

    Spike, my friend, no one here on this forum, or on this planet, has any control over you or what you get out of this. I think it likely that few could relate to what you get out of this, based on what you said. I wish you well in your personal journey, and I hope you won't be offended by those who have learned, or are learning, to think for themselves, sans god/religion. There are many here who are just as satisfied with there life while being rather non religious.

    Stephen said:

    I pray the Holy Spirit brings you one before too long, that's His department, not mine :)

    Then you quote more scripture. Curious, as I don't care about the bible anymore, having read it so many times in my life. I don't need to repent of anything, god needs to show up. I say that not to debate the point with you, but to simply bring out that, as the thrust of my thread suggested, WE/I/US are more important, and its high time that if "god" exists, he recognize this to by his actions, and not merely the words of his adherents.

    I don't mean for you to take offense, I doubt you will, but repentence directed to a no show god is not my idea of "self improvement".

    W Churchill said

    This site has filled a void, a void that attending meetings and hanging around with my good and beloved JW's friends won't fill. I think is an intellectual and humanistic void. Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating (probably I am), and that I'm selfish for getting away with the best of both worlds.

    Going to other church? I don't think so. To me the problem is with religion in general. Not an agnostic, much less an atheist, but the biggest beef I have with WTS I have with almost every religion: THEY NEVER SAY "I DON'T KNOW". They need to have an answer, and explanation and a position for everything, from oral sex to hickeys, form polygamy to vaccines, from dinosaurs to global warming... it never ends.

    You and I are in agreement here.....

  • ablebodiedman
    ablebodiedman

    AlltimeJeff,

    This isn't the point of this thread, so I will say my peace and leave it at that, but what good does it do to quote scripture to those who have found it isn't reliable? You might as well be quoting the Koran in Arabic as far as I am concerned.....

    Let me try again.

    I think the downfall of the Jehovah's Witnesses will fulfill bible prophecy. Including the one I quoted above. Also think the fulfillment of bible prophecy is more important than me.

    So therefore I must also think the downfall of the Jehovah's Witnesses IS more important than me. (the point of your thread)

    My post above inferred this but I guess you missed the point. I realise that many who become Ex-JWs also become atheists and therefore now choose to disdain of the bible. They at one time however, must have had some kind of appreciation for the bible in order to become a Jehovah's Witness in the first place.

    There are also some EX-JWs including myself who see the JW's fulfillling bible prophecy in a spectacular way. Instead of disdaining the bible they now have more appreciation for it than the rank and file Jehovah's Witness could hope to have.

    Some EX-JWs don't all fit into the neat little cubby hole of continuing their lives as if they were never touched by the Jehovah's Witnesses in the first place.

    If you did get the point of my explanation above then you might see why there are some EXJW's who see this circumstance as a better alternative to getting on with their lives like nothing happened after their exit from the JW organization.

    There are many other bible prophecies which some EXJW's see the JW's fullfilling and some consensus does exist amoung them.

    I doubt that you may be interested in pursuing this idea due to your newly found disdain for the bible however, your audience may not all concur.

    If anyone is interested then test out these links:

    Jehovah's Witnesses and the Covenant with Death:

    http://thebiblereport.blogspot.com/2008/08/video-chapter-covenant-with-death.html

    Disfellowshipping is Prophetic

    http://thebiblereport.blogspot.com/2008/08/disfellowshipping-is-prophetic.html

    regards

    abe

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Abe

    I am glad that you had your say. Needless to say, I came from an enviroment that thought the bible revolved around JW's, I can't hardly see how the opposite (i.e. believing the bible prophesied about the downfall of JW's) could be true with regard to them specifically, or to any group today.

    Just to clarify, as I think it a misnomer among many people of faith, those that decide that atheism or agnosticism sometimes do so because of bitterness, a reaction if you will, and I have noted that in the past.

    But not all, and frankly, not the majority.

    The majority of atheist/agnostic weighed the entire bible. They didn't say "JW's had it wrong, other religions might have it right, but I won't throw out the bible."

    They examined the bible, free from a "There must be a correct faith out there." They simply read and studied the bible on its own merits first, then compared religions.

    EX JW's are unique in that they actually are exposed to a lot of people of faith. Most JW's listen to the householder. So it isn't like we haven't been exposed to other faiths. Being a JW actually gave us a better look then most have in seeing different religions.

    They at one time however, must have had some kind of appreciation for the bible in order to become a Jehovah's Witness in the first place.

    While I respect your opinion and your right to it, I totally disagree. JW's, esp those "raised in the truth" have no choice but to believe in the bible NTW. An "appreciation" for it, while residing in the eye of each individual beholder, seems an overstatement. It is also a bit myopic.

    To think it was the bible that attracted us to JW's is a bit disingenuous and simplistic.

    Many like myself who left, and had serious doubts about the bible, were actually able to study those parts of the bible. The reasons to doubt were confirmed, the reasons for faith in it as a holy book, removed.

    Otherwise, I appreciate your points and opinions. If I implied that there are some ex JW's who are able to live as if they were never affected in it, I would think such ones, if they exist at all are in a very small minority. Most of us have been very affected. My point was, to what point do we let what affected us in our former JW existence carry over at the possible expense of yourself? Thats all.

    You latched onto the "downfall of JW's" part of my title. I guess if you believe that JW's are going down as prophesied, then none of us have anything to worry about.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    "Egregious"..Notably Bad..Flaggrant..................................After a few beer..Also Flatuent................................LOL!!...OUTLAW

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